Considering move to Lake Chapala - how do you all like it?

[ACD]

On 7/26/2023 at 11:34 AM, CanadianLady said:

... so many lovely people living there

Anything but!

[sm1mex]

Great climate. No snow or hurricanes. Kind culture. Cost of living lower. Excellent medical care. Always fresh produce at the weekly street markets. Infrastructure not good. Roads not good. Government difficult to deal with. Getting required documents for residency not easy. Don’t count on getting an electric or phone bill. Can’t get all the products sold NOB. However in todays time it is safer here and more friendly. You stop and talk with anyone and they will stop and talk to you. I’m staying here even though things can cause a challenge at least it is a kinder culture and people are friendly. Everyone will stop and help each other. 

[Ian Greenwood]

We have met wonderful people here and continue to do so…..Every think ACD that it’s Probably you……

 

 

 

[Mainecoons]

10 hours ago, sm1mex said:

Great climate. No snow or hurricanes. Kind culture. Cost of living lower. Excellent medical care. Always fresh produce at the weekly street markets. Infrastructure not good. Roads not good. Government difficult to deal with. Getting required documents for residency not easy. Don’t count on getting an electric or phone bill. Can’t get all the products sold NOB. However in todays time it is safer here and more friendly. You stop and talk with anyone and they will stop and talk to you. I’m staying here even though things can cause a challenge at least it is a kinder culture and people are friendly. Everyone will stop and help each other. 

Agree with the last part describing the Mexican community.  Particularly I've found them kinder to us older folks.  So many opportunities to make a real difference as well.

We're here for good.  

[gringal]

2 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Agree with the last part describing the Mexican community.  Particularly I've found them kinder to us older folks.  So many opportunities to make a real difference as well.

We're here for good.  

For one example, our car was at a stoplight a few days ago and a Mexican man came to the driver's window and told him one of our brake lights was out.  Not something we'd have noticed ourselves.  That's Mexico. We're here for good, too.

[blankletmusic]

On 7/26/2023 at 1:58 PM, hkrause said:

As you're aware from your travels, every place is different, with some aspect appealing and others not so great. Different strokes, and all that. Whether YOU like this location will depend on your own preferences and personality.

First rule: Don't believe anybody who tries to convince you that Lakeside is "paradise" with no down side! Listen to the negatives as well... don't ignore them because you already like the area from things you've heard. Take the good, the bad, and evaluate realistically based on your needs.

Second: Heed the suggestions to visit in person. Depending on you, a couple of short, intensive research trips might work. 6 Months that span both the hot/dry weather and the pleasant rainy season would be better. Renting for a year would be best. Like Hud and others have said, this isn't everybody's cup of tea and some end up leaving to go back "home" or elsewhere. Real estate commissions are expensive... don't plan to buy until you're more certain you'll stay for a few years, at least.

That said, we did about 5 years of thorough research before coming here, including 2 trips during the different seasons. We considered many other places to relocate and decided on Lakeside for retirement. We moved here 11 years ago and have stayed, loving some things and hating others. The things we enjoy outweigh the negatives enough that we have no immediate plans to leave, but we recognize that situations change. From my experience, the main reasons people stay awhile then leave are: 1) Didn't research enough in advance to realize certain things would be such a turn-off, 2) Health changes, making it advantageous to return to a familiar system back home, and 3) Family situation creates a change of heart - either missing family back home, or a partner separation/divorce leaves someone without their main support. 

Here are some of the positives, which we find appealing about Lakeside (keep reading for the negatives to consider)...

The people - both locals and other expats are generally pleasant, welcoming and helpful. There ARE exceptions to this on both sides, but the overall feel is very positive.

Slow pace - we seldom feel rushed to be anywhere in a hurry. Appointments and movie times are the exception. Meals are wonderfully relaxed, with the expectation that you'll take your time visiting or enjoying the scenery/weather afterward. No rushing you away from the table to seat the next customer.

Weather - we're from Kansas City originally, which is cold with ice/snow in winter and hot/humid in the summer. We tended to live indoors or in our cars to stay comfortable for months at a time. Here our house doesn't even have HVAC. It gets chilly in the evenings (great for sleeping) and sometimes hot during the day (mainly in May to mid-June), but we get by with a small space heater in winter, or fans in summer. Natural ventilation is key, with most businesses having doors/windows open all the time along with outdoor seating. Some people add a small room a/c unit for when it's hottest... after this last summer we're considering it! But generally the weather here is one of the main draws.

Medical - good care is available and much less expensive than in the US. Dental and vision care is inexpensive enough that you don't need insurance. Other medical can be paid out-of-pocket, depending on what you need done. Many hospitals are top notch quality with very modern equipment and procedures. Senior care is available, with attitudes about caring for the elderly much different than the warehouse mentality up north.

Culture - even though Lakeside is becoming more modern and caters to gringos in many ways, local culture and traditions still have a strong hold. There are frequent celebrations and events to enjoy and even participate in.

Art - this is an artist community and art is EVERYWHERE, from museums and galleries to murals on buildings and other structures to art shows. There is even a children's art program at LCS to encourage future artists and feed the soul. "Art" extends to performance as well, with many live music, dance and stage productions to enjoy. If you're artistic yourself (and even if you're not), you'll find plenty of opportunity to let your creativity flow.

Dining - we love to eat out and there are literally hundreds of options to choose from within the Lakeside area, from little taco stands and inexpensive spots to mid-range to upscale and even some high-end dining "event" opportunities. Lots of variety as well. That's just in the Lakeside area... Guadalajara multiplies that beyond imagination.

Natural beauty - the lake is huge and helps moderate the weather in addition to being scenic. Mountains ring the lake and turn a gorgeous green during rainy season, very much resembling the scenery in other volcanic areas, like Hawaii. The climate supports both tropical and dessert plants, so there is ALWAYS something blooming and color everywhere. 

Expat support - with so many expats here already, you'll find plenty of help in relocating and existing comfortably. There are major groups (LCS, American Legion, etc) with many resources, religious groups, special-interest groups, neighborhood groups, classes, and social media. In addition to this discussion board, there are many Facebook groups that are very active and at least one other discussion board. Be sure to take everything you hear or read with  grain of salt... some people love to hype the area and offer a view through rose-colored glasses, while there are some curmudgeons and trolls who make a hobby of griping and moaning. The truth is somewhere in between, flavored by your own perspective.

Guadalajara - separated by a mountain range to keep the big city from encroaching, but close enough to have available all the resources of Mexico's 2nd largest city. An international airport is about 45 minutes away (depending where you start from), major shopping malls and familiar stores/dining provide plenty of shopportunity (Costco/Sam's, Sears, Home Depot, Office Max, McDonalds/Burger King/Chili's/Carl's Jr/Popeye's/etc.), Large and modern supermarkets are available in case you enjoy shopping outside the options available Lakeside (Mega and Fresco are amazing), there are loads of museums and historic sites to see, a wonderful zoo, awesome architecture, movie theaters and major concert venues... the list barely scratches the surface!

Nearby attractions - the ocean is a reasonable drive (3-4 hours), and there are so many interesting towns and natural attractions within a day's drive from here. Multiple companies provide English-speaking tours to many places, either as day trips, or multi-night travel with tours at the destination and along the way. If you're comfortable driving, you can get to many of these sites on your own, without the tour. 

Like I said, this is just a partial list of the highlights we enjoy here. There are negatives as well, however. If somebody tries to gloss over the bad parts, they're probably trying to sell you something. Here's a few things to weigh on the other side of the scale...

The people - along with the good, there are bad. With the difference in "wealth" created by gringos and middle-class Mexicans coming here, it provides opportunity for a fair amount of property crime and scams. You have to be aware and careful. Don't flaunt money or expensive things that will draw attention from bad actors, and plan to use protection for your home and valuables to discourage burglaries. Watch out for pickpockets and those who would trick you into parting with your money for a sales pitch or promises they won't keep. Prepare yourself for the scourge of entitled expats, who feel "their way" is always better and that they are more important than others, especially locals. Some people are real butt-holes!

Medical - although there is plenty of good quality, there is also shoddy service and poor quality, even dangerous, care around. It's a buyer-beware environment and you really need to research before deciding what hospital or medical professional to use. You don't have the same protections you have up north in case something goes wrong.

Trash, litter and clutter - we're often amazed at how clean places are kept... you even see street vendors and shop keepers sweeping the sidewalk and street around their businesses. However, there's a lot of trash and litter scattered around since people think nothing about tossing things along the street or leaving trash bags where street dogs can tear into them. Businesses, although clean, can seem cluttered and run-down with wiring and pipes everywhere, structures in need of repair, paint that is sloppy, and "things" stuffed/hanging everywhere. It takes some getting used to.

Prison walls - home and business security measures can seem intimidating and make you feel like you're surrounded by prison walls... tall fences, electric fences, razor wire, glass shards embedded in concrete, thorny plants, gates on carports, cameras, big dogs, bars on doors and windows. All intended to encourage invaders to seek a softer target, but the appearance can be a bit frightening.

Language barrier - unless you speak fluent Spanish, you will feel a bit lost with so much chatter around you that's not understandable. Many businesses have someone who can speak at least some English, but there are some that don't. If you get into an emergency situation it can be scary not being able to communicate your needs. Signs are usually in Spanish and the messages might apply to you, but you're not sure. Google Translate (or your preferred translation app) is a great friend for helping with translation of words, phrases, signs, and even spoken conversation, but it's not perfect.

Unfamiliar procedures - many things are handled differently than in the US/Canada/Europe and it can be confusing knowing how to tackle even the simplest task, such a paying bills or buying certain products. This is where the support of other expats comes in handy, but you'll often run into situations that are unfamiliar or confusing. It's a learning process. Some people hire "facilitators" or helpers to get over the hump with some hand-holding. Don't be afraid to ask for assistance or guidance.

Crime and danger - yes, the cartels and other organized crime is active in this area and all around Mexico. They are well funded, equipped, and dangerous if you run across them. Lakeside is usually excluded from the US State Dept warnings about dangerous areas, but you need to be aware and careful even here. I feel safer where we live now than back in the US, but every place has its active hot spots that are to be avoided. Sign up for the State Dept STEP program to receive updates (problem areas change frequently), and keep and eye on local social media to stay aware of any potentially unsafe locations or activities. Use common sense but realize that some of the dangers here are different from what you're used to... get educated.

Politics - the politics can be confusing and worrisome, but unless you're a citizen you're not able to vote and are generally discouraged from being politically active. Causing problems can get you kicked out of the country. Although the government at Lakeside is open to input from expats and foreigners, we don't really have much say in many things that happen around us. Adjust your thinking to accept that you're a guest here and that you have limited options.

Police - local police, traffic cops, state police, military and others are everywhere. Some drive around in vehicles with mounted machine guns or openly carry weapons at the ready. They are armed and they are serious. Generally, they are present to keep things under control, but some can use their power to intimidate or scam. You'll hear stories about police asking for "mordita" (bribes) and threatening to take your vehicle or toss you in jail if you don't comply. This has never happened to us and I think it's less common than some would have you believe, but the problem DOES exist and we know people who have been robbed by these authority figures. 

Lake Dangers - you won't see the lake used much for swimming or recreation because of concerns about pollution and underwater hazards. While some lakes in the US would be a great draw for boaters, fishing, water skiing and such, this one is far less active. There are kayakers and sail boats, but most of the fishing is by locals who use the fish to help feed their families or to sell to other locals. Every year we hear of some drownings... from people falling off boats or wading into the water from shore. There are water plants that are easy to get tangled in, plus barbed wire and other structures just below the surface (constructed when the lake levels were down, then covered when water comes back up). If you want to go in the water, use a pool, head to the ocean, or find some other recreational lakes.

Utilities - service can be inconsistent, especially during rainy/stormy season, but any time of year actually. Internet has frequent outages in some areas and slow service at other times. Power can go out for hours at a time. Water service can be unreliable depending on your water source and location. Sewers are old and overburdened so it's not uncommon to trash used TP instead of flushing it, and sometimes it's tough to get the toilet to flush at all. This area is growing much faster than government is updating infrastructure to handle new construction, so there are concerns about systems not being able to handle the load.

Traffic - there's ONE main road around the lake and between villages, where most traffic flows. It can be difficult to get around on side streets because many are cobblestone with lots of bumps, holes and frequent construction. Therefore, traffic is slow and often backed up, especially on weekends and holidays when tourists flood the area. There is a nice, new bicycle path along the main road, which is getting much more use from those who want to get around more quickly, and bicycle shops provide options for transportation including eBikes. However, car/truck/motorcycle traffic continues to get worse. Patience is required, and it's always appreciated if you're considerate enough to let people turn or get onto the main road from side streets.

Noise - from cohetes (LOUD fireworks) to traffic to dogs and livestock to businesses to celebrations and church bells to street vendors and vehicles with loudspeakers... there is a LOT of sonic ambiance in the area. Different areas more than others, and different noises depending on where you live. One good reason to visit the area or live somewhere for awhile is to find out what it sounds like. There are lots of "eventos" (event centers) that seem quiet most of the time, but have parties with fireworks and loud music that last into the night. Some restaurants have live music late at night. Daytime salespeople drive around with messages repeated on loudspeakers to let residents know they are near. It's difficult to know what type and duration of noise you'll endure without being in an area for awhile since it can be intermittent. Some people enjoy the activity while others hate it. Nervous pets can be especially affected by loud sounds during storms or celebrations. Don't be one of those people who come down unprepared and then complain when you're bothered by not being able to sleep, or because your dog gets upset. We're tired of hearing the whining.

Home Entertainment - generally you can't just turn on your TV and get what you're expecting. Having usable programming is a constant challenge that requires some investigation, configuration, and getting used to. Cable options are generally in Spanish. Satellite services are unreliable as NOB companies change equipment to exclude use in Mexico. Various Internet companies can be used for streaming with a variety of services, but you have to pay something to get going and service outages are common. If you're not tech savvy, it can all be confusing and complicated. There are people who can help, but you'll have to do some digging to figure out what options are best for your area or house. Some aren't available everywhere. Enjoy the journey! Oh, and if you're used to turning on your car radio for entertainment, understand that mostly you'll get static here or something in Spanish. Music streaming services on your phone connected to car radio via Bluetooth will be more friendly.

OK, geez... that's wordy and long, so I'll leave it at that. It will give you a start for your own research and snapshot of the area from one perspective. My interests and preferences will probably be different from your own, however, which is why visiting in person can be very important. When we were researching originally, I had LOTS of input from others, but found that their priorities and perceptions were often different from what I found when we checked things out in person. You'll be the same. Be sure to check some other social media options if you haven't already to get a wider variety of opinions. Happy researching!

Great post, really enjoyed reading it, but I have to ask-What has changed, really changed for better or worse over the years? I haven't been there for quite some time. What would I likely notice straight away?

[bmh]

More and more traffic, more 2 and 3 storey houses less land available, more doctors and clinics/hospitals , faster and better internet, more badly paved road even the prolongation of Ocampo is paved now.etc.. I ll be leaving after I sell my house for another part of Mexico.

[RickS]

9 hours ago, blankletmusic said:

I haven't been there for quite some time. What would I likely notice straight away?

Straight away you would notice the bumper to bumper traffic from Ives Restaurant (west Ajijic) to Superlake in San Antonio!  Much of the day with only a couple of breaks.  Seriously. 

 

[artsnob]

To avoid mid day traffic, we drive on streets thru town, works great...

[mkshawn]

You can easily edit to side streets

[CanadianLady]

Thank you! I will prob do likewise (leave everything behind).  Appreciate the info, nice to hear its working well for those that also choose this option

[CanadianLady]

On 7/27/2023 at 4:02 PM, ACD said:

Anything but!

Your not happy there?

[lakeside7]

To simplify Climate, Cost of living,  Culture 

[CanadianLady]

On 7/26/2023 at 2:58 PM, hkrause said:

As you're aware from your travels, every place is different, with some aspect appealing and others not so great. Different strokes, and all that. Whether YOU like this location will depend on your own preferences and personality.

First rule: Don't believe anybody who tries to convince you that Lakeside is "paradise" with no down side! Listen to the negatives as well... don't ignore them because you already like the area from things you've heard. Take the good, the bad, and evaluate realistically based on your needs.

Second: Heed the suggestions to visit in person. Depending on you, a couple of short, intensive research trips might work. 6 Months that span both the hot/dry weather and the pleasant rainy season would be better. Renting for a year would be best. Like Hud and others have said, this isn't everybody's cup of tea and some end up leaving to go back "home" or elsewhere. Real estate commissions are expensive... don't plan to buy until you're more certain you'll stay for a few years, at least.

That said, we did about 5 years of thorough research before coming here, including 2 trips during the different seasons. We considered many other places to relocate and decided on Lakeside for retirement. We moved here 11 years ago and have stayed, loving some things and hating others. The things we enjoy outweigh the negatives enough that we have no immediate plans to leave, but we recognize that situations change. From my experience, the main reasons people stay awhile then leave are: 1) Didn't research enough in advance to realize certain things would be such a turn-off, 2) Health changes, making it advantageous to return to a familiar system back home, and 3) Family situation creates a change of heart - either missing family back home, or a partner separation/divorce leaves someone without their main support. 

Here are some of the positives, which we find appealing about Lakeside (keep reading for the negatives to consider)...

The people - both locals and other expats are generally pleasant, welcoming and helpful. There ARE exceptions to this on both sides, but the overall feel is very positive.

Slow pace - we seldom feel rushed to be anywhere in a hurry. Appointments and movie times are the exception. Meals are wonderfully relaxed, with the expectation that you'll take your time visiting or enjoying the scenery/weather afterward. No rushing you away from the table to seat the next customer.

Weather - we're from Kansas City originally, which is cold with ice/snow in winter and hot/humid in the summer. We tended to live indoors or in our cars to stay comfortable for months at a time. Here our house doesn't even have HVAC. It gets chilly in the evenings (great for sleeping) and sometimes hot during the day (mainly in May to mid-June), but we get by with a small space heater in winter, or fans in summer. Natural ventilation is key, with most businesses having doors/windows open all the time along with outdoor seating. Some people add a small room a/c unit for when it's hottest... after this last summer we're considering it! But generally the weather here is one of the main draws.

Medical - good care is available and much less expensive than in the US. Dental and vision care is inexpensive enough that you don't need insurance. Other medical can be paid out-of-pocket, depending on what you need done. Many hospitals are top notch quality with very modern equipment and procedures. Senior care is available, with attitudes about caring for the elderly much different than the warehouse mentality up north.

Culture - even though Lakeside is becoming more modern and caters to gringos in many ways, local culture and traditions still have a strong hold. There are frequent celebrations and events to enjoy and even participate in.

Art - this is an artist community and art is EVERYWHERE, from museums and galleries to murals on buildings and other structures to art shows. There is even a children's art program at LCS to encourage future artists and feed the soul. "Art" extends to performance as well, with many live music, dance and stage productions to enjoy. If you're artistic yourself (and even if you're not), you'll find plenty of opportunity to let your creativity flow.

Dining - we love to eat out and there are literally hundreds of options to choose from within the Lakeside area, from little taco stands and inexpensive spots to mid-range to upscale and even some high-end dining "event" opportunities. Lots of variety as well. That's just in the Lakeside area... Guadalajara multiplies that beyond imagination.

Natural beauty - the lake is huge and helps moderate the weather in addition to being scenic. Mountains ring the lake and turn a gorgeous green during rainy season, very much resembling the scenery in other volcanic areas, like Hawaii. The climate supports both tropical and dessert plants, so there is ALWAYS something blooming and color everywhere. 

Expat support - with so many expats here already, you'll find plenty of help in relocating and existing comfortably. There are major groups (LCS, American Legion, etc) with many resources, religious groups, special-interest groups, neighborhood groups, classes, and social media. In addition to this discussion board, there are many Facebook groups that are very active and at least one other discussion board. Be sure to take everything you hear or read with  grain of salt... some people love to hype the area and offer a view through rose-colored glasses, while there are some curmudgeons and trolls who make a hobby of griping and moaning. The truth is somewhere in between, flavored by your own perspective.

Guadalajara - separated by a mountain range to keep the big city from encroaching, but close enough to have available all the resources of Mexico's 2nd largest city. An international airport is about 45 minutes away (depending where you start from), major shopping malls and familiar stores/dining provide plenty of shopportunity (Costco/Sam's, Sears, Home Depot, Office Max, McDonalds/Burger King/Chili's/Carl's Jr/Popeye's/etc.), Large and modern supermarkets are available in case you enjoy shopping outside the options available Lakeside (Mega and Fresco are amazing), there are loads of museums and historic sites to see, a wonderful zoo, awesome architecture, movie theaters and major concert venues... the list barely scratches the surface!

Nearby attractions - the ocean is a reasonable drive (3-4 hours), and there are so many interesting towns and natural attractions within a day's drive from here. Multiple companies provide English-speaking tours to many places, either as day trips, or multi-night travel with tours at the destination and along the way. If you're comfortable driving, you can get to many of these sites on your own, without the tour. 

Like I said, this is just a partial list of the highlights we enjoy here. There are negatives as well, however. If somebody tries to gloss over the bad parts, they're probably trying to sell you something. Here's a few things to weigh on the other side of the scale...

The people - along with the good, there are bad. With the difference in "wealth" created by gringos and middle-class Mexicans coming here, it provides opportunity for a fair amount of property crime and scams. You have to be aware and careful. Don't flaunt money or expensive things that will draw attention from bad actors, and plan to use protection for your home and valuables to discourage burglaries. Watch out for pickpockets and those who would trick you into parting with your money for a sales pitch or promises they won't keep. Prepare yourself for the scourge of entitled expats, who feel "their way" is always better and that they are more important than others, especially locals. Some people are real butt-holes!

Medical - although there is plenty of good quality, there is also shoddy service and poor quality, even dangerous, care around. It's a buyer-beware environment and you really need to research before deciding what hospital or medical professional to use. You don't have the same protections you have up north in case something goes wrong.

Trash, litter and clutter - we're often amazed at how clean places are kept... you even see street vendors and shop keepers sweeping the sidewalk and street around their businesses. However, there's a lot of trash and litter scattered around since people think nothing about tossing things along the street or leaving trash bags where street dogs can tear into them. Businesses, although clean, can seem cluttered and run-down with wiring and pipes everywhere, structures in need of repair, paint that is sloppy, and "things" stuffed/hanging everywhere. It takes some getting used to.

Prison walls - home and business security measures can seem intimidating and make you feel like you're surrounded by prison walls... tall fences, electric fences, razor wire, glass shards embedded in concrete, thorny plants, gates on carports, cameras, big dogs, bars on doors and windows. All intended to encourage invaders to seek a softer target, but the appearance can be a bit frightening.

Language barrier - unless you speak fluent Spanish, you will feel a bit lost with so much chatter around you that's not understandable. Many businesses have someone who can speak at least some English, but there are some that don't. If you get into an emergency situation it can be scary not being able to communicate your needs. Signs are usually in Spanish and the messages might apply to you, but you're not sure. Google Translate (or your preferred translation app) is a great friend for helping with translation of words, phrases, signs, and even spoken conversation, but it's not perfect.

Unfamiliar procedures - many things are handled differently than in the US/Canada/Europe and it can be confusing knowing how to tackle even the simplest task, such a paying bills or buying certain products. This is where the support of other expats comes in handy, but you'll often run into situations that are unfamiliar or confusing. It's a learning process. Some people hire "facilitators" or helpers to get over the hump with some hand-holding. Don't be afraid to ask for assistance or guidance.

Crime and danger - yes, the cartels and other organized crime is active in this area and all around Mexico. They are well funded, equipped, and dangerous if you run across them. Lakeside is usually excluded from the US State Dept warnings about dangerous areas, but you need to be aware and careful even here. I feel safer where we live now than back in the US, but every place has its active hot spots that are to be avoided. Sign up for the State Dept STEP program to receive updates (problem areas change frequently), and keep and eye on local social media to stay aware of any potentially unsafe locations or activities. Use common sense but realize that some of the dangers here are different from what you're used to... get educated.

Politics - the politics can be confusing and worrisome, but unless you're a citizen you're not able to vote and are generally discouraged from being politically active. Causing problems can get you kicked out of the country. Although the government at Lakeside is open to input from expats and foreigners, we don't really have much say in many things that happen around us. Adjust your thinking to accept that you're a guest here and that you have limited options.

Police - local police, traffic cops, state police, military and others are everywhere. Some drive around in vehicles with mounted machine guns or openly carry weapons at the ready. They are armed and they are serious. Generally, they are present to keep things under control, but some can use their power to intimidate or scam. You'll hear stories about police asking for "mordita" (bribes) and threatening to take your vehicle or toss you in jail if you don't comply. This has never happened to us and I think it's less common than some would have you believe, but the problem DOES exist and we know people who have been robbed by these authority figures. 

Lake Dangers - you won't see the lake used much for swimming or recreation because of concerns about pollution and underwater hazards. While some lakes in the US would be a great draw for boaters, fishing, water skiing and such, this one is far less active. There are kayakers and sail boats, but most of the fishing is by locals who use the fish to help feed their families or to sell to other locals. Every year we hear of some drownings... from people falling off boats or wading into the water from shore. There are water plants that are easy to get tangled in, plus barbed wire and other structures just below the surface (constructed when the lake levels were down, then covered when water comes back up). If you want to go in the water, use a pool, head to the ocean, or find some other recreational lakes.

Utilities - service can be inconsistent, especially during rainy/stormy season, but any time of year actually. Internet has frequent outages in some areas and slow service at other times. Power can go out for hours at a time. Water service can be unreliable depending on your water source and location. Sewers are old and overburdened so it's not uncommon to trash used TP instead of flushing it, and sometimes it's tough to get the toilet to flush at all. This area is growing much faster than government is updating infrastructure to handle new construction, so there are concerns about systems not being able to handle the load.

Traffic - there's ONE main road around the lake and between villages, where most traffic flows. It can be difficult to get around on side streets because many are cobblestone with lots of bumps, holes and frequent construction. Therefore, traffic is slow and often backed up, especially on weekends and holidays when tourists flood the area. There is a nice, new bicycle path along the main road, which is getting much more use from those who want to get around more quickly, and bicycle shops provide options for transportation including eBikes. However, car/truck/motorcycle traffic continues to get worse. Patience is required, and it's always appreciated if you're considerate enough to let people turn or get onto the main road from side streets.

Noise - from cohetes (LOUD fireworks) to traffic to dogs and livestock to businesses to celebrations and church bells to street vendors and vehicles with loudspeakers... there is a LOT of sonic ambiance in the area. Different areas more than others, and different noises depending on where you live. One good reason to visit the area or live somewhere for awhile is to find out what it sounds like. There are lots of "eventos" (event centers) that seem quiet most of the time, but have parties with fireworks and loud music that last into the night. Some restaurants have live music late at night. Daytime salespeople drive around with messages repeated on loudspeakers to let residents know they are near. It's difficult to know what type and duration of noise you'll endure without being in an area for awhile since it can be intermittent. Some people enjoy the activity while others hate it. Nervous pets can be especially affected by loud sounds during storms or celebrations. Don't be one of those people who come down unprepared and then complain when you're bothered by not being able to sleep, or because your dog gets upset. We're tired of hearing the whining.

Home Entertainment - generally you can't just turn on your TV and get what you're expecting. Having usable programming is a constant challenge that requires some investigation, configuration, and getting used to. Cable options are generally in Spanish. Satellite services are unreliable as NOB companies change equipment to exclude use in Mexico. Various Internet companies can be used for streaming with a variety of services, but you have to pay something to get going and service outages are common. If you're not tech savvy, it can all be confusing and complicated. There are people who can help, but you'll have to do some digging to figure out what options are best for your area or house. Some aren't available everywhere. Enjoy the journey! Oh, and if you're used to turning on your car radio for entertainment, understand that mostly you'll get static here or something in Spanish. Music streaming services on your phone connected to car radio via Bluetooth will be more friendly.

OK, geez... that's wordy and long, so I'll leave it at that. It will give you a start for your own research and snapshot of the area from one perspective. My interests and preferences will probably be different from your own, however, which is why visiting in person can be very important. When we were researching originally, I had LOTS of input from others, but found that their priorities and perceptions were often different from what I found when we checked things out in person. You'll be the same. Be sure to check some other social media options if you haven't already to get a wider variety of opinions. Happy researching!

If I were to list questions, it would contain all of this  THANK YOU - seem to have similar interest/concerns from noise, sanitation, safety, medical, weather, etc.  Really appreciate the share.  I figure NO place has 'greener grass' and I figured life would be much like it's described here.  Everywhere I've lived offered its own pros/cons and its uniqueness makes it special (and all about perspective).  The loudspeakers remind me of Indonesia, and as soon as I read that it took me back to Balikpapan. I will read this post often to ensure I absorb it all.  Very thankful you took the time to document so much!

[ACD]

42 minutes ago, CanadianLady said:

Your not happy there?

I am very happy in Mexico and, for me, the Lake Chapala region is idyllic. Unfortunately, it attracts many from Canada and the US who bring the sort of baggage from which I seek to escape. Bottom line: great choice if you can avoid the gringos.

[hkrause]

20 hours ago, blankletmusic said:

Great post, really enjoyed reading it, but I have to ask-What has changed, really changed for better or worse over the years? I haven't been there for quite some time. What would I likely notice straight away?

Thanks. Glad it's useful.  Well, over the time we've lived here or been coming to research, the main change seems to be growth... LOTS of construction, more traffic, more people. We have noticed more businesses catering to the growing gringo population, with shopping options (more import and specialty items), more people speaking English, and familiar dining options (almost impossible to find good fries 10 years ago, for example, and now they're everywhere). Two new major medical facilities at Lakeside are nice to have available (although they seem to be going through some growing pains). 🙄   It SEEMS like there are fewer cohetes at all hours of the day and night, although still enough to set people off about noise. Many more cars on the road, but almost never see donkeys around town now. 🙁 The lake level goes up and down some, but doesn't seem nearly as volatile as before. More public toilets with seats and TP... a big plus in my book! 👍 More murals and public artwork everywhere you look. Otherwise, the area is generally much like when we started coming here. 

[hkrause]

39 minutes ago, CanadianLady said:

If I were to list questions, it would contain all of this  THANK YOU - seem to have similar interest/concerns from noise, sanitation, safety, medical, weather, etc.  Really appreciate the share.  I figure NO place has 'greener grass' and I figured life would be much like it's described here.  Everywhere I've lived offered its own pros/cons and its uniqueness makes it special (and all about perspective).  The loudspeakers remind me of Indonesia, and as soon as I read that it took me back to Balikpapan. I will read this post often to ensure I absorb it all.  Very thankful you took the time to document so much!

You're welcome. I'm glad it's helpful. 

[bmh]

6 hours ago, artsnob said:

To avoid mid day traffic, we drive on streets thru town, works great...

Have you tried to go to west ajojic via the village lately? They are redoing streets and you never know which ones are blcocked and this week I had to go to the carretera as Zaragosa was blocked.. sometimes Hidalgo differnt sections as the week progresses.. It is awful.

[lakeside7]

2 hours ago, ACD said:

I am very happy in Mexico and, for me, the Lake Chapala region is idyllic. Unfortunately, it attracts many from Canada and the US who bring the sort of baggage from which I seek to escape. Bottom line: great choice if you can avoid the gringos.

How sad how so very sad that you have to make a comment like that. Immigrants from any place need to be treated with respect and dignity....period

[ACD]

7 minutes ago, lakeside7 said:

Immigrants from any place need to be treated with respect and dignity....period

Agree.

[blankletmusic]

5 hours ago, ACD said:

I am very happy in Mexico and, for me, the Lake Chapala region is idyllic. Unfortunately, it attracts many from Canada and the US who bring the sort of baggage from which I seek to escape. Bottom line: great choice if you can avoid the gringos.

That's the biggest problem I had as well.  I fear that if certain "electoral events" ( I'll call them) transpire in the next year and a half in the US, Mexico and other Gringo-popular places will be deluged with  NOB escapees. Ones that are able to escape, that is. I'll surely be one of them, hence this post about what's really changed there in recent years. It sounds like the traffic is a real PITA. Not something I had to deal with then. Bumper to bumper traffic was virtually unknown to me then-sounds like a regular occurence now.

I can remember sitting through several series of red lights in Chapala waiting to turn left.....that was about the worst of it then.

[ACD]

12 minutes ago, blankletmusic said:

NOB escapees

They come in droves and change it for the worse.

[bmh]

the big plus is that we do not have any horse or cow carcass rotting away slowly under lime. I remember it would take a year for a whole horse or cow to disappear..I have not seen one of those for ages, Thank God.

[blankletmusic]

3 hours ago, ACD said:

They come in droves and change it for the worse.

Could get a whole lot worse after Nov. 2024. I hope Mexico is ready for potentially large-scale NOB "escapism". I suppose time will tell......

[hkrause]

Anybody who moves to Mexico to "escape" US politics may not realize their efforts to make a statement won't work as intended. We still hear the news and find plenty of discussion locally. We are still US citizens, affected and governed by US laws. Our NOB bank and investment accounts are still affected by what happens there. Family and friends who we left behind are dealing with it. Mexicans and expats from outside the US still view us as complicit in what our politicians decide and how they behave. We still vote in national politics from Mexico... it's just more complicated and difficult. Unless someone is willing to become a citizen elsewhere and give up US citizenship (not advised if you plan to use Social Security as part of your income), you are still involved. Sticking your head in the sand still leaves a US flag visible on your back. The only difference is being less likely to see political posters, face that politically opposed neighbor, or argue with weird Uncle Bob at family gatherings.

You can boldly announce to those up north that you're fed up and leaving the country to get away from politics, but the reality is you better have lots of OTHER reasons for making a move to Mexico and you'd better know what you're getting into. Otherwise, you may find yourself returning home with a red face when you find that Mexico IS NOT just like home, but without the Red and Blue division. So, to tie back in with the original discussion here... Don't figure that Lakeside, or anywhere in Mexico, is going to purge US politics from your life. You may find it a bit muffled here, but it doesn't disappear.