Mainecoons Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 Well, I gave it to him and there's plenty more where that came from. Other than he hates my opinion I'm hard put to figure out just what his opinion of the topics I discussed is. Does he think all the national and international citations about Pemex corruption and inefficiency are wrong? Does he feel all these stories about the millions and billions of pesos being stolen by politicians are fabrications? My wife and I are feeling a bit uneasy these days. It seems that both the level of government corruption and failure here and the level of protests of one sort or another are escalating. Just look at this gasoline business and what has been happening in Oaxaca for example. And the murder rate is headed north again. http://www.insightcrime.org/news-analysis/homicides-in-mexico-reach-highest-level-in-two-years Do any of you share this feeling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barcelonaman Posted January 5, 2017 Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 i travel a lot for business through out mexico and socially things are deteriorating. people are worried about the price hikes, gas, food etc. corruption is a long standing gripe,the current government arent popular, pesos/ dollar and the trump effect to come ! but generally business remains good here. i am in specialized steel industry and growth continues . so much so my company is opening a distribution centre here. sales and rentals of warehouses in queretaro/ bajio , san luis, puebla continue to grow so investment is still coming in . this year socially is going to be very difficult for us all, can see crime rising, more demonstrations, road blocks. but i remain optimistic for the business sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted January 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2017 I think the oil gamble is that profit margins will be less then corruption losses. Business will control the corruption in protection of it's profit margin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barcelonaman Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Lots of problems breaking out throughout mexico today.looting. demonstrations. Vandalism . All on tv and newspapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdmowers Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 9 hours ago, HarryB said: I think the oil gamble is that profit margins will be less then corruption losses. Business will control the corruption in protection of it's profit margin? I think so. 80-year old state control of energy (gas, electricity, natural gas, non-fossil fuels) is ending in March. There will be competition in all these energy areas. Other brand gas stations, other brand electricity companies, etc. The free market coming to Mexico in energy. Pemex has existed without much oversight and standard Mexican "corruption" has been feeding on the profits. Now, it will be subject to the free market and will have to operate without most of that corruption to stay viable in the market or international energy companies will overtake it. For the time, I think this free market influence will be a good thing for Mexico. I don`t think the social programs dependent on oil income will suffer much. Without the corruption bleeding out Pemex' income, the leaner operation it will have to become to compete will probably generate the same profits or more to apportion to the nation`s social programs. Unless the gangs just decide to put more taps into the pipelines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMexicali Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 On 05/01/2017 at 10:25 PM, bdmowers said: I think so. 80-year old state control of energy (gas, electricity, natural gas, non-fossil fuels) is ending in March. There will be competition in all these energy areas. Other brand gas stations, other brand electricity companies, etc. The free market coming to Mexico in energy. Pemex has existed without much oversight and standard Mexican "corruption" has been feeding on the profits. Now, it will be subject to the free market and will have to operate without most of that corruption to stay viable in the market or international energy companies will overtake it. For the time, I think this free market influence will be a good thing for Mexico. I don`t think the social programs dependent on oil income will suffer much. Without the corruption bleeding out Pemex' income, the leaner operation it will have to become to compete will probably generate the same profits or more to apportion to the nation`s social programs. Unless the gangs just decide to put more taps into the pipelines! https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=es&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elfinanciero.com.mx%2Feconomia%2Fsepararan-a-cfe-en-siete-empresas.html&edit-text=&act=url "The business of the Federal Electricity Commission [CFE] must be separated into 10 new units, ordered by the Energy Secretariat, so that four generation subsidiaries will be created, one of distribution, one of transmission, one of basic supply, one for qualified supply, and As an affiliate to serve independent producers and another for the self-service business. This same movement will generate for the first time the figure of "supplier" that will acquire a company of the CFE, that will only be in charge of the collection and attention to the final customer and that will compete with other companies by the market of domestic or business consumers. The distribution subsidiary, responsible for the infrastructure operation of poles and urban cabling will primarily have 16 business units, one for each geographical area in which the CFE currently divides the national territory.The legal separation will allow the CFE to be more competitive in the new electricity sector, having companies specialized in each of the activities of generation, transmission, distribution and supply, Sener, the Energy Secretary ( Sener ) , said.. Sources linked to the process reported that the restructuring of the company should be carried out within approximately six months." CFE will be divided into 8 federal government owned companies [subsidiaries] and most of it will be in the control and overseen by the federal government as before. It more or less will be breaking up current central management control it now has. I don´t understand them competing with each other if they are in different regions of the country, but maybe that is in line and distribution not electricity production. Only one part of the 10 companies will be independantly owned outside of the federal government. No real privitization of electricity in Mexico. See the chart in this webpage link. Note Google Translator got Chinese for "chino" but in this context means tangled. "Each company must have different structures and can not communicate with each other. There are a number of Chinese [tangled] barriers to preventing information sharing in a way that could be anti-competitive." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeser Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 I purchased gasoline in Texas just off IH-35 north of Laredo last week for $1.81. If the business were really privatized someone would buy gasoline in Texas wholesale without federal (18.40¢) or state tax (20¢) for export for about $1.43 a gallon and ship it down in rail cars and more than triple their money at private stations here. Now that's competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercasa Posted January 7, 2017 Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 My wife and I have agreed not to pay municipal water or taxes as the local governments are complicit in violations of human rights and not giving answers, unfortunately they will probably stiff the lower end people first and not the higher up leaches who only get their jobs with administration changes. I have been lied to and had false documents with lies provided to me by the local government so have no problem with not paying to show my dissatisfaction with the corruption that is presently happening even though they have a cheerleader who poses for pictures with all foreigners she says she works for free although supports the administration and gives dumb answers like "the huge potholes on the main street havent been fixed because they have been asking for it for 67 years". I had asked for documents through transparency for some clients and was denied as well as asked for copies of permits and licenses and told none existed which is a lie and now puts them criminally liable, all for a dumb coverup for stealing money and incompetence, things are out of control and someone needs to fight for the little guy, the workers whose tortillas will rise 5 pesos a kilo, milk which will rise, transportation and gas. How will families make up this deficit which was thrust upon them with little notice... although the news is filtering another gas hike next month. So many want to pass the buck and say its not us we are a different level of government but besides stealing and extortion, where do the local flunkies get their money from? I mean really how naive can the people be with these Johnny come lately types who never had a real job and then within a short time have alot and who thwart all attempts at proper requests to see documents detailing expenditures and where money comes from. As foreigners dont march in the streets but also remember who the enemy is and use your wallet to show displeasure, there is no rush to make payments and you may help others who are poorer. If you were angry at the bailouts of US Banks that is what is happening here but with more egregious thievery and fraud with Pemex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted January 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2017 Thank you Spencer!!! Your opinion is highly regarded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Thank you Spencer. Glad to see I'm not the only one around here who isn't impressed by the Chapala government. Of all of us you are probably in the best position to know what these thieves are up to. And a little icing on the cake for Alan: http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/ex-governors-linked-to-road-contract-bribes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezpz Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 I don't own a car or house here so I can't directly participate in the "protests". However, as a permanente resident who cares deeply about the well being of the people here, I think one thing we can all do, whether temporary visitors or permanent, is to give raises to our maids and gardeners who work hard for their money, and to tip well and give to the beggars and charities as well. There is virtually no social safety net in Mexico for the unemployed or under-employed. It is a true hardship for most Mexicans when the prices of staple items go up. We foreigners are enjoying a bonanza in the peso devaluation so it's only right to help spread that around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercasa Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 I am looking at presenting amparos (federal writs) to stop the implementation of the gas hike, will be preparing them soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringal Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, Intercasa said: I am looking at presenting amparos (federal writs) to stop the implementation of the gas hike, will be preparing them soon. That sudden rate increase is the hardest on those least able to pay it. That had to be obvious. What WERE they thinking? Go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonia Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 http://www.forbes.com/sites/themexicoinstitute/2016/02/09/what-next-for-pemex/#56ff866e5c64 http://wolfstreet.com/2016/04/16/pemex-sinkhole-of-debt-corruption-gets-mexico-taxpayer-bailout-wall-street-thrilled/ Unfortunately, many Mexicans think the issue is competition and defend PEMEX. They have no idea of the truth. The do not want competition. The issue with PEMEX (and CFE) is corruption, huge pension unfunded liability, inefficiencies, growing number of employees, losses of billions per year; thieves, incompetence, greed. Those articles tells me competition should have come much sooner. It will take years for other companies to come and set up gas stations, distribution, hire trustworthy staff, etc. Gas is to go up 8% more in February. Unfortunately, the anger is directed at price increases and government and that anger does not include being directed at PEMEX where the problem lies. PEMEX can never survive on its own going forward with so much debt and thousands of new employees many who never go to work. Unrest in Mexico is growing at the government, cost of energy, corruption, lack of infrastructure, education. Pena Nieto will soon be polling single digits based on comments by well educated friends. Next election could very well bring a very leftist government, not PRI and not PAN. I am told by staff at local government offices such as Rentas and the driver's license office they expect protesters to shut them down. The water and sewage group in SMA is called SAPASMA and their web site is openly hacked and not operating. The hackers have their information on the web site and nothing else visible. It is not going to get better. Sonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquaponicsman Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 On 1/5/2017 at 8:39 AM, pedro malo said: doesn't privatizing the oil only introduce one more greedy open hand into the mix... F'real? The suggestion that anything private is greedy, especially compared to government, suggests a complete lack of knowledge of history and certainly of current events such as what is occurring in places such as Venezuela. The greatest risk of death is not cancer or car accidents. It is government. I am not trying to attack the author, I know a lot of people want the government to be mommy (and husband) from cradle to grave because it eliminates all personal responsibility -- but some of us are still men (we went to college before they forced students to take "The Evils of Masculinity" courses that are mandated now.) I think personal responsibility is a trait we all should promote... and believe privatization can be a good thing, as the penalty for failure is going out of business, as opposed to government throwing good money after bad and just increasing taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro malo Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 26 minutes ago, Aquaponicsman said: F'real? The suggestion that anything private is greedy, especially compared to government, suggests a complete lack of knowledge of history and certainly of current events such as what is occurring in places such as Venezuela. The greatest risk of death is not cancer or car accidents. It is government. I am not trying to attack the author, I know a lot of people want the government to be mommy (and husband) from cradle to grave because it eliminates all personal responsibility -- but some of us are still men (we went to college before they forced students to take "The Evils of Masculinity" courses that are mandated now.) I think personal responsibility is a trait we all should promote... and believe privatization can be a good thing, as the penalty for failure is going out of business, as opposed to government throwing good money after bad and just increasing taxes. When you combine the resource of oil with the interests of private corporations that have always pursued to profit from that resource, whether our own or in someone else's country in another part of the world, I would suggest there is a substantial greed factor. Wars have been started and will continue to be started over it and regimes over thrown. To deny this fact does suggest "a complete lack of knowledge of history and certainly of current events" such as in the Iraq, Libya, etc. The millions who have died in the process of "privatizing" those resource. And of course government is complicit. The military has often been used as a citizen subsidized "private defense force" for corporate interests. This is not new and has been part of history since the beginning. National Fruit Company made a lot of gains using the US military, even adding the State of Hawaii to our land mass. The overthrow of democratically elected regimes in Central and South American and throughout the world, etc. I would consider that greed. Opinions to the contrary are at best naive and lack an understanding of how this world really works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 One doesn't have to know history to simply look at Brazil, Venezuela and Mexico to figure out why government is no good at running energy companies. This ain't rocket science. What government should do, and nothing more, is to keep the private sector from forming anti-competitive monopolies. Even with a semi-monopoly in the U.S. the American consumer has the best deal going on energy on the planet. That is because the private sector does this work better, period. It always has and it always will. The trick is to keep the greedy competing with each other. I'll tell you what, I wish we could take every one of these pig politicians who like to start useless foreign wars and line them up at the very front of the battle line. I guarantee you wars would be very short and no one would be killed but them. To the benefit of mankind. The political class in practically every country in the world, and especially this one, is the greatest enemy of the people. Compared to the murder and mayhem the U.S. and Europe has visited on the Middle East, the so called terrorists are pikers. Look at some of the numbers of the civilian death toll in Iraq if you doubt this. I can't blame the survivors for wanting to blow the perps up, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro malo Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Here, here Maincoons!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonia Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Mexico should not be controlling PEMEX but every energy producer is subsidized so I would not look at the US, Canada, Russia etc as role models. You pay lower costs only because you actually pay a lot more indirectly through subsidies. I would not look to the countries with huge subsidies as role models. http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geeser Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 On 1/9/2017 at 5:19 AM, Sonia said: Mexico should not be controlling PEMEX but every energy producer is subsidized so I would not look at the US, Canada, Russia etc as role models. You pay lower costs only because you actually pay a lot more indirectly through subsidies. I would not look to the countries with huge subsidies as role models. http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/ Oil isn't subsidized in north America. They get to depreciate the asset just as if they had timber or a mine. But no one except the buyer gives them any money. They also depreciate the equipment over time. But they pay a huge chunk of cash for the equipment. The companies get a break on their taxes because of the depreciation but so does other businesses. That deprecaition on a resivor of oil is an oil depletion allowance. Sonia, I don't see where the subsidy comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johanson Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 Do you really mean North America? According to Mr. Google, there are some 20+ countries therein including Cuba and Mexico. Sorry to be such a trouble causer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bowie Posted January 12, 2017 Report Share Posted January 12, 2017 On 1/9/2017 at 5:19 AM, Sonia said: Mexico should not be controlling PEMEX but every energy producer is subsidized so I would not look at the US, Canada, Russia etc as role models. You pay lower costs only because you actually pay a lot more indirectly through subsidies. I would not look to the countries with huge subsidies as role models. http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/ Isn't this written by a group opposed to using fossil fuel? If so, what do you expect them to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonia Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies and .... This graph below, displayed today by David Hochschild, a commissioner with the California Energy Commission, at the Energy Productivity Summer Study in Sydney, illustrates why the fossil fuel and nuclear industries don’t want that to happen. Studies by the International Energy Agency point out that global subsidies for fossil fuels outstrip those for renewable energy nearly 10-fold. The International Monetary Fund said if climate and environmental costs were included, then the fossil fuel subsides increased another 10 times to nearly $5 trillion a year. This graph, that Hochschild sourced from DBL Investors, shows the accumulated energy subsidies in the US under federal programs. Oil and gas dominate, followed by nuclear. Federal renewable energy subsidies, in the form of investment and tax credits, are a small fraction. “The fossil fuel industry hates to talk about that,” Hochschild told RenewEconomy in an interview after his presentation. “There is a myth around subsidies, but there is no such thing as an unsubsidised unit of energy.” He said the oil depletion allowance had been in place for the oil industry since 1926, and would be ongoing, despite the fact it was one of the most profitable industries in the world. He cited insurance costs for nuclear plants – met by taxpayers – “without which there would be no nuclear plants”. For natural gas, it was the drilling, or fracking, which had been made exempt from compliance with the safe drinking water act: “That is subsidy,” he said. And he pointed to taxpayer funded rail networks that have helped coal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 Be careful what your source labels as subsidies for oil and gas. It is not accurate to call the same business tax deductions that other businesses receive as subsidies. The depletion allowance, for example, takes into account that a well runs out of oil or gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLIN Posted January 13, 2017 Report Share Posted January 13, 2017 The U.S. private sector already controls the oil industry all over the world, and has done so for many years. To explore for, drill for, refine, pipe and transport oil requires a huge infrastructure with very unique, specialized equipment. This activity also involves staggering maintenance costs to avoid accidents, or environmental disasters. The high tech equipment to monitor the process, and all the maintenance nuts and bolts - are 99% controlled by U.S. Companies, made in the U.S.A. They make huge profits. Then there is private security to ensure the safety on these technicians and mechanics while overseas, again U.S. companies preferred. The government uses this as political pressure - sure, you can run your own oil shop, but what are you going to do when it starts to breakdown? This exact scenario has been played out many times in the world. I believe this was the same problem in Mexico. The nationalized PEMEX, with rising maintenance costs (in U.S. $), way too much top management, and not enough funding for deep(er) sea drilling, really had to find partners. Partners/investor would be reluctant to pour money into a government mandated pricing scheme. The government could potentially bleed these partner/investors dry. Also in the free market they could at least attempt to influence pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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