US Death Certificates

[gyma]

I'm doing end-of-life planning and a consideration in choosing a funeral home for cremation is one that charges $22K pesos but will take care of getting the equivalent of a US death certificate, and another that charges $13.4K pesos but does not offer that service.

Does anyone have experience getting a death certificate from the Consulate in Guadalajara? Any idea how much it costs, the number of hoops you have to jump through, and the number of copies you get? I did see on the State Department website that ordering a death certificate for persons who die in Mexico costs $50 USD each. Ouch! I'm assuming this is the charge for getting them much later than immediately following the death.

Thanks!

[Natasha]

Excuse me, but if you plan to die HERE what you will get is a Mexican Death Certificate.  Can't say for U.S., but Canadian gov't will need at least 2 and when I was last involved with a death, one agency accepted certified translation, and other  only wanted certified copy and they would translate on their end.  Then you need to plan where else in U.S.  will need ( banks,  life insurance company , investment houses, etc etc..  Funeral home gets them and you can tell them in advance how many certified copies you'll need.  OR you may need some that are certified AND notarized.... by a Mexican Notaria Publica.  

I THINK what you're talking about is the service provided by U.S: Consulate in Guad where they will do the certified/translated  ENGLISH copies of the Mexican original for you. (Canada doesn't have that service).  And yes, I do believe it's $50 per copy whether sooner or later.  Go for the $13.4 K pesos.  Let whomever is left when you're gone do the hoop jumping, once they have appropriate written instructions in your plan.   

[Mostlylost]

You will need death certificates for many things. Never heard of a funeral home that can not help with that.  Last event I helped was for a Canadian citizen. I asked for 10 certificates in Spanish, and 5 in English. They were able to do that for the fqmily with no problem. Better to have more than you need.  

[gyma]

48 minutes ago, Natasha said:

Excuse me, but if you plan to die HERE what you will get is a Mexican Death Certificate.  Can't say for U.S., but Canadian gov't will need at least 2 and when I was last involved with a death, one agency accepted certified translation, and other  only wanted certified copy and they would translate on their end.  Then you need to plan where else in U.S.  will need ( banks,  life insurance company , investment houses, etc etc..  Funeral home gets them and you can tell them in advance how many certified copies you'll need.  OR you may need some that are certified AND notarized.... by a Mexican Notaria Publica.  

I THINK what you're talking about is the service provided by U.S: Consulate in Guad where they will do the certified/translated  ENGLISH copies of the Mexican original for you. (Canada doesn't have that service).  And yes, I do believe it's $50 per copy whether sooner or later.  Go for the $13.4 K pesos.  Let whomever is left when you're gone do the hoop jumping, once they have appropriate written instructions in your plan.   

Why, exactly, should I be excusing you? According to the US Embassy in Mexico website (https://mx.usembassy.gov/death-of-a-u-s-citizen/) there is a process you go through to get what is called a Consular Report of Death Abroad (CRDA) which is not just a translation of the Mexican death certificate.

What I asked was for advice for someone who had gone through this process, which you obviously have not.

And for the record, I care enough about my spouse that if the process is going to be onerous, I would be willing to pay extra to make it easier to deal with, rather than as you suggested, have them go through the hoop jumping. 

And for anyone else curious about this process, I just found this on the State Department's website. Apparently they email you a PDF file and you can print out as many copies as you need. So no, each copy will not cost you $50 USD.

• Contains a digital signature of the Consular Officer and a digital seal of the U.S. embassy or consulate. This allows the Consular Officer to send the document to the next of kin and other legal entities by email, which is much faster than by regular post. The recipient can then print out as many copies as they need, at time of receipt or at any time in the future.

The above is taken from this link: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/death-abroad1/consular-report-of-death-of-a-u-s--citizen-abroad.html

[Natasha]

you did't say it was a death while abroad

[Mainecoons]

I certainly understood he/she is referring to death here, since the OP stated clearly that they were evaluating services  offered by the two local funeral homes.

Is the "equivalent" of a U.S. Death Certificate here that CRDA?  Would the more expensive place be getting that in addition to the Mexican Death Certificates? 

We are also engaged in the same process and are very interested in this topic.  As for someone who has actually gone through the process, I think benjiboy has recently.  Maybe he would be willing to share what he learned.

 

[bmh]

I got 10 death certificates from the funeral Home and used about 2 or 3 

But those were the Mexican ones.I needed a few for the US and for France and the bank in the US but my experience is that many times the original death certificate was returned.

I went to Guadalajara to get an apostilled Mexican death certificates for Frame or US i do not remember.

 

 

[ibarra]

We have helped deal with deaths of several U.S. citizens while living in MX (25 years).  So far, none of them needed a different death certificate than the one provided by local funeral establishments.  No copies were sent to the U.S., just the official ones that were stamped, and, only one company wanted an officially translated copy to English.  Also, several of our friends have contacted the businesses in the U.S. that will actually require a death certificate to find out what those business will actually require upon death.  This has saved pain and stress once death does occur for the remaining partner.  IMO it would be worthwhile to contact Social Security, your financial institutions, insurance companies etc., now, to be prepared in advance.  I don't believe anyone on this board can actually tell you what you will need as far as death certificates as they may not be affiliated with your specific businesses etc.

What I have stated is for U.S., not Canada or any other country.

[BenjiBoy]

Okay....here is a summary of what I needed, what I got, how much it cost and that I wish it never happened.

I was advised to make an advance plan for my wife's demise by her doctors. I did just that with a local Jocotepec funeral home. Upon her death, they returned my deposit and stated the price had increased and if I didn't want to pay that I was welcome to look elsewhere. I walked away from them. There are numerous funeral services in this area and another one stepped up immediately. The cost, after conversion into USD was $1000.00. As to the paperwork...I received more than I needed, would ever need or wanted. The US embassy and the government that it represents accepted the Mexican death certificate with no hesitation and no additional cost. The US Social Security system needed a copy to issue the death payment and all copies that they requested were returned to me. No bank that we dealt with needed anything more then me saying that my wife had passed away.  I wanted to send my wife's ashes to the USA and needed permits to do so by air...the cost for the permits was an additional $129.00 usd and all copies of papers were returned to me with the permits for the airline. 

I have, after 19 years, learned my way around here very, very well and I have many locals to assist me.....you can do it the easy way or look for crazy additions ....when your loved one dies don't make it harder on yourself follow the paths that are well-worn and proven. 

Fred Habacht

[Voir dire]

We have encountered the same as BenjiBoy and Ibarra.  No need to pay for special documents that will not be needed.  In addition, when several close friends died, the funeral home contacted Social Security in GDL and when our friends called, S.S. was aware of the death and asked for a scanned death certificate, did not need an original.  Same was true of financial institutions.  Our friends were able to download documents and send them to the companies.  As Ibarra suggested, contact these places in advance and see what is required upon death.  Yes, I understand that requirements may change but you can contact them annually for changes/updates.

[gwynne]

When my husband died the funeral home gave me 1 original and 5 copies of the Mexican death certificate.  Ten days later the US consulate sent 5 copies in english. That sufficed until I went to TelCell to cancel his phone plan.  They demanded an original.  I asked what would happen if the account was simply not paid. Answer: It will be cancelled.  Fortunately my cell is on a separate plan.  His ashes were carried back to the states in our son's check through luggage.  All documents were included but there was no "permit to fly".  No problems there.  One US bank sent me an online form to fill out.  The other ignored my questions until a year later when they threatened to close the account.  They accepted a scanned copy of the US death certificate. The bank here just needed a copy of the Mexican one.

If someone dies in the hospital, of natural causes and there are no complications any funeral home can take care it.  But if there is ANY extenuating circumstance..,.car accident....death somewhere other than your home village....there is a ton of paperwork and you are going to need a lawyer.  San Francisco Funeral Home in Chapala has one on staff and it's included with the fee.  You get what you pay for.

[ibarra]

Adding to what gwynne stated, we have been told to ALWAYS get a doctor to declare a cause of death as soon as possible, otherwise, it is a real hassle and very time consuming and expensive to actually get a body released to the family.  We had a friend that died recently and the family, in their grief, forgot to get a cause of death recorded by a doctor right away.  The body went to the morgue and had to have an autopsy performed which was expensive before the body could be released.  They had to pay for the autopsy and storage of the body during that process at the morgue.  What a hassle that in most cases can be avoided.

[gyma]

3 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

I certainly understood he/she is referring to death here, since the OP stated clearly that they were evaluating services  offered by the two local funeral homes.

Is the "equivalent" of a U.S. Death Certificate here that CRDA?  Would the more expensive place be getting that in addition to the Mexican Death Certificates? 

We are also engaged in the same process and are very interested in this topic.  As for someone who has actually gone through the process, I think benjiboy has recently.  Maybe he would be willing to share what he learned.

 

According to the State Dept. website, yes, the CRDA is the equivalent of a US death certificate and it is what is needed in the US for beneficiaries to claim assets. I am going to check with Arturo at Funeraria Chapala on Morelos because on another post I read where someone used him and he took care of all the paperwork, and charges several thousand pesos less than the other funeral home.

[Ferret]

Agree Ibarra. Do NOT call the Red Cross!!! They call the Police which opens a whole can of worms. Examples are Mike Riley (ComputerGuy) and BMH's husband. YOUR Doctor's contact information should be prominently displayed (magnetic card on fridge) and your trusted contact people should be told that and who/what to do and to call IF YOU LIVE ALONE. They should also have keys to your house so as to check on you if they do not receive your daily "I'm still kickin'" text. One thing missing in the below link, is to have vehicles in both names if you are a couple. This translates as "y/o" (and/or) on the title registration. Makes it far easier to sell a vehicle. 

It's inevitable so make it easy on those who follow so be prepared.

Required reading:

 

[ibarra]

3 minutes ago, Ferret said:

. ..One thing missing in the below link, is to have vehicles in both names if you are a couple. This translates as "y/o" (and/or) on the title registration. Makes it far easier to sell a vehicle. ..

 

The seller/owner of the vehicle does not have to go with the new owners of the car to change names on the registration.  Anyone can actually sign the back of the title with the actual owner/sellers name.  All they care about to change names is that the document is signed.  I have personal experience with this.   

[Ferret]

I guess you could but that really doesn't sound very legal to me.

[ibarra]

1 hour ago, Ferret said:

I guess you could but that really doesn't sound very legal to me.

There aren't any legal requirements that I have been able to locate that states someone must watch and verify that the title is actually signed by the owner.  You usually just sign it and hand it to the new owners.  We sold a car last year and I had my husband sign it as his name was on the refrendo, took the signed document outside to new owners and off they went.  I'm pretty sure it works that way still in the U.S. Otherwise, both seller and new owners would have to go to the DMV together.

Here is what we needed to do to legally sell our car in 2023:

You need the original factura.

The original factura from the Mexican car dealership functions as a "title" / ownership document. The current owner simply hand writes a few sentences on the back of the factura saying that they certify that they are the official owner of vehicle with VIN number _______, and they agree to sell the vehicle to ______________ , followed by the owner's signature, name, and date.

Here is one site from the U.S.:

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/transfer-car-title

How car title transfer works - 

Transferring a car title consists of three steps, one for the seller, one for the buyer and one for the state.

The seller has to release ownership of the car by signing the title. 

The buyer takes the signed title to the state office that handles car titles, often called the department of motor vehicles, or DMV. Some states might require additional paperwork to complete the process, such as a bill of sale or a transfer of ownership form.

Your state DMV issues a new registration and title. 

[Ferret]

1 hour ago, ibarra said:

Anyone can actually sign the back

What you just described is a little different than what you originally wrote. The REAL owner of the vehicle signed... not ANYONE.

[ibarra]

1 minute ago, Ferret said:

What you just described is a little different than what you originally wrote. The REAL owner of the vehicle signed... not ANYONE.

I should have said ANYONE CAN SIGN THE BACK AND NO ONE WOULD BE THE WISER as long as it is the owner of records name.

I thought that was understood without having to write it. Guess I was mistaken.

[Ferret]

Go ahead and try that. Let's see what happens.

[ibarra]

18 minutes ago, Ferret said:

Go ahead and try that. Let's see what happens.

Show me the signature police at the Licencia place in Chapala and at all of the DMV locations in the U.S.  We have bought and sold many cars in MX (last one was June 2023 in Chapala. Sold one and purchased another) in 2 different States over the last 25 years and no one has asked to see the original owner, let alone have someone that can verify that person's signature.

[Ferret]

The signature is on your driver's license and other places. This may have been possible in the past but, in this day of computers, it's risky imho. Whatever works for you.

[Cronopio]

As of at least a few months ago, the consulate is now issuing an electronic version of the consular report of a death abroad for Americans.

A couple of years ago when I went through this process, I handled getting the consular report myself.  I seem to remember an annoying phone tree getting through to the right person at the consulate, but the whole process was straightforward.  At that time they gave me 10 copies of the report.  I paid nothing, and they sent the reports to me.

I did end up needing the report for a few financial and legal things in the US (along with the Mexican death certificate).

[RickS]

This example is not Mexico but.....  the DMV people are not 'signature cops' said one agent to me one time. One would be surprised as to how illegible some people are with their signatures on car titles, etc.  

[Voir dire]

4 hours ago, Ferret said:

The signature is on your driver's license and other places. This may have been possible in the past but, in this day of computers, it's risky imho. Whatever works for you.

Ibarra said and did nothing illegal.  I sold a couple cars in 2023 and wrote on the back of the document just like Ibarra did, signed them and that was all. I even went to place on Degollado and checked to make sure the titles had been transferred.