Red Cross No Service No Meds

[Hernan Santiago]

I also had a bad experience with Cruz Roja. Happened six months ago. A Mexican friend had an epileptic seizure in my home. Took him to Cruz Roja. They told me to take him home and he would be fine. Four more seizures in the next 14 hours and Cruz Roja refused to help him, as they said he was violent. Just a guess, but when folks are having seizures they are thrashing around. This is a very long story and it upsets me to write it, but I gave 500 pesos to Charlie everytime I saw him whether at Superlake or elsewhere and gave the maximum on the phone challenge to Cruz Roja the first time TelMex did it. Now, not a centavo in six months and I can forsee no other contributions on my part due to this incident. If you would like details PM me. I have said too much already. Hope I am not banned for sharing a negative experience with Cruz Roja, but it frees me to get a part of my story out, even though several know it and witnessed it when it happened. And I did have a phone conversation with Dr. Sam at about two in the morning, crying and begging for his help. To no avail.

[canmex87]

When my husband was stung by a scorpion we went to Cruz Roja. Dr. Sam told us they had the anti-venom shot but it was very expensive unless you had Seguro Popular in which case it was free. We said yes, we have Seguro Popular and we have a copy of our SP registration in the car. Then Dr. Sam said they would only give it if my husband was showing an allergic reaction, which he wasn't. They observed him for an hour and then sent him home.

Second scorpion sting -- in the middle of the night -- was very bad. One of those little brown scorpions, and it stung my husband's finger 2 or 3 times, the pain was very bad. We called our doctor (Dr. Juan Pablo Loza), who was out of town and sent us to the Ajijic Clinic, who didn't have the anti-venom shot. Doctor recommended a 24 hour clinic in Chapala but we couldn't find it. The next morning Dr. Loza returned early from his trip to treat my husband, gave him the anti-venom shot (which had an 840 peso price tag on the box), and then sent him to that Chapala clinic for 5 bags of a saline+pain killer drip. The shot helped the pain a lot, the drip bags helped a little.

To find that 24 hour clinic in Chapala: go north up Madero to the bus station and turn right on to Miguel Martinez. The clinic is 2 or 3 blocks down, on the right hand side of the street, in a 2 story white building. Very small little door with the word "clinic" painted on or close to the door. Sorry can't remember better instructions.

Clinica Ibarra

Miguel Martinez # 530

Chapala

765-4001

[Dr.Sam]

I also had a bad experience with Cruz Roja. Happened six months ago. A Mexican friend had an epileptic seizure in my home. Took him to Cruz Roja. They told me to take him home and he would be fine. Four more seizures in the next 14 hours and Cruz Roja refused to help him, as they said he was violent. Just a guess, but when folks are having seizures they are thrashing around. This is a very long story and it upsets me to write it, but I gave 500 pesos to Charlie everytime I saw him whether at Superlake or elsewhere and gave the maximum on the phone challenge to Cruz Roja the first time TelMex did it. Now, not a centavo in six months and I can forsee no other contributions on my part due to this incident. If you would like details PM me. I have said too much already. Hope I am not banned for sharing a negative experience with Cruz Roja, but it frees me to get a part of my story out, even though several know it and witnessed it when it happened. And I did have a phone conversation with Dr. Sam at about two in the morning, crying and begging for his help. To no avail.

Obviously I was not there to see what happened, but I have three questions for you:

- How much was alcohol involved in the behavior of the patient?

- Did the patient resist or refuse treatment? If the doctor said the patient was violent, I doubt they are talking about a seizure, and are referring to his dislike to being treated. In fact, you state he had a seizure in your home, and then 4 more in your home. I am assuming there were no seizures witnessed during his visit to the Cruz Roja because you do not mention any.

- Was the patient taking his medication?

The Cruz Roja receives many patients with convulsions. The majority are febril in children under 5 years of age. Some are new cases. Some are pregnant patients with eclampsia. They can be treated. However, we CANNOT force a patient to take their medication or to not drink alcohol or take drugs (common causes of uncontrolled seizures).

[purplebeads]

Unless you have trouble breathing,what is the big deal? The sting is painful for a few hours and then goes away. These stings are not life threatning unless you have breathing issues.

he Sting

Scorpion venom is injected into tissue by the sting of its tail. Clutching prey in its claws, the tail is thrust overhead to sting. Each species has unique venom that contains multiple toxins and other compounds causing a wide range of reactions, from local skin pain to neurological, respiratory, and cardiovascular collapse.

While the majority of scorpions are harmless, the sting can be extremely painful and may require painkilling treatment. In addition there may be numbness or tingling and swelling in the area. Nausea or vomiting is not uncommon.

More serious symptoms, such as changes in blood pressure (high or low), fever, heart palpitations or difficulty breathing, may occur in 45-60 minutes. Symptoms that signify a more critical reaction include agitation or roving eye movements, involuntary muscle spasms, difficulty swallowing, and blurred vision, local or generalized seizures. Shock or respiratory arrest may result without prompt medical intervention.

It is also possible to have an allergic reaction to the venom causing many of the common allergic symptoms such as hives, respiratory distress, sense of panic, to more serious reactions and death.

Treatment

If stung, and experience burning pain, swelling or numbness at the site of the sting.

Clean the sting with an antiseptic cleanser.

Apply ice pack to the area to reduce pain and swelling.

Immobilize the extremity which was stung above the heart until you can establish whether the sting has produced severe poisoning.

Antihistamine such as Benadryl® may help reduce swelling and itching.

Analgesics Tylenol ® or Ibuprofen may be taken for minor pain.

Local health care providers suggest you seek medical attention immediately after experiencing a sting as you won’t know for sure if your were stung by a poisonous scorpion. Have someone else drive you or use a cab (in case your condition worsens).

[lakeside7]

Just curious. How many of the people who have replied (especially the criticizing ones) realize that Red Cross (Cruz Roja) in Mexico is a FAR DIFFERENT kettle of fish than in Canada, U.S., and many other countries.

Here it is against the law for them to receive government funding. They must raise ALL their operating funds on their own, even though in many places (like Lakeside) their emergency services (ambulances etc.) are the only way accident and health emergency victims can be accessed and helped.

You did not say, and I am not implying anything, but from comments made to me by many others in the past, one reason people go charging off to Cruz Roja is they percieve (and expect) the service to be free. And one friend who took another there recently was quite astounded ( and then ashamed) to learn that they should have offered to pay something for the services rendered.

Yes, they will care for you and no, they will not demand payment (except for ambulance service to Guad) but "free" is intended for the people who really need it (like poor Mexicans). Foreigners who opt to go there for whatever reason should be prepared to ante up, and be generous when you do, or there will be no Cruz Roja service at all, and that would be the greater shame and tragedy.

At the Cruz Roja there is a posted fee for services and you are expected to pay..why not?

[valbogyo]

Just curious. How many of the people who have replied (especially the criticizing ones) realize that Red Cross (Cruz Roja) in Mexico is a FAR DIFFERENT kettle of fish than in Canada, U.S., and many other countries.

Here it is against the law for them to receive government funding. They must raise ALL their operating funds on their own, even though in many places (like Lakeside) their emergency services (ambulances etc.) are the only way accident and health emergency victims can be accessed and helped.

You did not say, and I am not implying anything, but from comments made to me by many others in the past, one reason people go charging off to Cruz Roja is they percieve (and expect) the service to be free. And one friend who took another there recently was quite astounded ( and then ashamed) to learn that they should have offered to pay something for the services rendered.

Yes, they will care for you and no, they will not demand payment (except for ambulance service to Guad) but "free" is intended for the people who really need it (like poor Mexicans). Foreigners who opt to go there for whatever reason should be prepared to ante up, and be generous when you do, or there will be no Cruz Roja service at all, and that would be the greater shame and tragedy.

I think when people think "EMERGENCY" they think Red Cross. There are the other clinics open i Ajijic, correct? That is where I would head if I thought I needed urgent care.

Regarding the bug bite/sting topic: I think we should start a new thread, and include pictures of our two forms of scorpions and also a picture of the black widow. Then we could include treatment advice and people can search when they need it. Hmmmm.... Yep, I think I will start something. This info is great and I want to be able to find it!

[Aquaponicsman]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/arizona-woman-feeling-pain-83-046-bill-anti-venom-drug-seeking-medical-treatment-scorpion-sting-article-1.1152754#ixzz2TkEAeUGw

Arizona woman feeling the pain from a $83,046 bill for anti-venom drug after seeking medical treatment for scorpion sting

An Arizona woman says she's still reeling from a scorpion sting she suffered last year after she was billed $83,046 for an anti-venom drug that costs just $100 per dose in Mexico.

The 52-year-old decided to seek treatment at the Chandler Regional Medical Center after she found herself struggling to breathe and walk within an hour of the sting.

When she arrived at the hospital with the help a friend, a doctor administered two doses of the scorpion anti-venom Anascorp through an IV drip.

She was discharged three hours after she was admitted.

It wasn't until weeks later when she got the medical bill that she realized how much her quick stint in the hospital cost.

$83,046. Humana, covered $57,509 of the charges. Now, she's being asked to foot the remainder - $25,537.

[bwhite1948]

Update to that Arizona story:

Arizona hospital cuts scorpion antivenom price by 80%

Nobody disputes that Anascorp is effective and fast. The scorpion antivenom drug can help children and adults recover quickly from severe reactions to scorpion stings.

But, as many Arizonans who need the antivenom to recover from scorpion encounters discover, the hospital bills that come weeks after they leave the emergency room typically run tens of thousands of dollars.

Chandler Regional Medical Center billed an Ahwatukee Foothills woman $83,046 for a June visit that included administering two doses of scorpion antivenom. The Chandler hospital's charge for the scorpion antivenom? $39,652 per dose.

After The Arizona Republic reported the charges, the hospital said it would review its pricing for the drug. Arizona Department of Health Services records show the hospital has lowered its price to $8,000 per dose of Anascorp, a discount of $31,652, or 80 percent, per dose from its previous charge.

Other hospitals' charges range from $7,950 per dose at Banner Health to $21,875 per dose at Phoenix Children's Hospital, according to Department of Health Services records.

Hospital representatives and the Tennessee-based company that owns the U.S. rights to Anascorp acknowledge the Mexican-made drug is expensive. But they say that is a function of the patchwork system of health-care pricing, particularly for rare drugs sold in the U.S.

"We are not pleased the therapy is as expensive as it is when we sell it to the hospital," said Jude McNally, medical science liaison with Tennessee-based Rare Disease Therapeutics. "The drug needed to be priced in a manner that we could keep it on the market and make it available."

Mexico-based Instituto Bioclon produces more than 250,000 vials of the scorpion antivenom each year for Mexican residents. The Mexican version of the drug is sold for about $100 per vial at pharmacies or for less at government-funded clinics and hospitals in Mexico.

Instituto Bioclon also makes the drug for the U.S. To pass muster with the Food and Drug Administration, McNally said, the Mexican factory had to make expensive improvements to its manufacturing process for the American version. Batches of the drug also are subject to continual testing by FDA inspectors, he added.

"It is manufactured under a different process," McNally said. "The Mexican manufacturers coined the phrase 'the long process' " when comparing the American with the Mexican version of the drug.

Other economic factors contribute to the drug's prices, too. McNally said about 4,000 scorpion stings require antivenom each year in the U.S. And Rare Disease Therapeutics must price the drug high enough that it can pay FDA fees.

Although the privately owned Rare Disease Therapeutics does not disclose its finances, the company said it sells the serum to a distributor for the average wholesale price of $3,500 per vial. The distributor typically sells the drug directly to hospitals and other medical providers for about $3,780 per vial.

From there, hospitals must establish the price at which they sell the drug, taking into account factors such as discounted prices for insurers and providing care for the poor and uninsured who may not be able to pay their bills.

The drug is sold at discounted rates for government-funded health programs such as Medicare, Medicaid and the Veterans Administration.

Rare Disease Therapeutics this week decided it would adopt a new policy to alleviate some financial pressure for hospitals. It will replace hospitals' expired vials of Anascorp for free. The drug now has a two-year shelf life.

Ahwatukee Foothills resident Marcie Edmonds said she was shocked when she received a bill for more than $83,000 from Chandler Regional Medical Center. Her insurer, Humana, paid the hospital $57,509 for the bill. She was charged for the balance of $25,537.

After The Republic reported on Edmonds' case, the hospital settled her bill for an undisclosed sum. But other Arizona residents have expressed shock when they discovered their charges.

Anthem resident Matt Garner said his son Chase, 3, received superb care from John C. Lincoln Health Network following a scorpion sting in April. After receiving four intravenous doses, Chase was released from the hospital.

Garner was billed more than $51,000. Nearly $50,000 was for the antivenom, for which John C. Lincoln charges more than $12,400 per dose, according to the Department of Health Services.

Garner's insurer, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Arizona, paid about $38,000, and the hospital wrote off the rest of the bill because Garner was between jobs and could not pay it at the time, he said. "People with open-heart surgery have told me they paid less," Garner said.

John C. Lincoln said out-of-pocket costs for patients vary depending on their insurance plans. For people without insurance, the hospital offers discounted rates.

Department of Health Services records show Phoenix Children's Hospital raised its price for Anascorp in July from $18,900 to $21,875.

The hospital said young children stung by a scorpion face a higher risk of neurological and breathing problems. Without the antivenom, they may require a week or longer in an intensive-care unit. Kids who get the antivenom typically leave the hospital in less than one day.

The hospital said in a statement that Anascorp's "list price" is reduced based on insurance-company contracts.

"Our financial assistance policy helps those patients who are uninsured, underinsured or otherwise unable to pay for medically necessary care," the statement said.

[jrod]

For patients possibly allergic to bee stings or scorpions, our doctor NOB recommends 2 benadryl, ice near the injection site, then prescribed an EpiPen (which comes in a 2-oak) in case breathing issues arrive, then get to nearest health provider. We always have the EpiPens on hand, renew the prescription as they expire so we can have on hand. The edpPen Jr are the correct dosage for dogs under 50 lbs as well.

[ichbinsaege]

I think when people think "EMERGENCY" they think Red Cross. There are the other clinics open i Ajijic, correct? That is where I would head if I thought I needed urgent care.

That is correct. Cruz Roja is for EMERGENCIES. Ajijic Clinic and Maskaras are for URGENT CARE type situations. Like when you have a cold and have been coughing all night, go to one of the clinics, NOT Cruz Roja. The doctors there do not need to be tied up with non-emergency cases when an actual emergency arises.

[osuespirit]

I have had surgery at IMSS and was very happy with the results. However, there is no aftercare. You must do that yourself. Remember we have a brand new hospital, state of the art. Have not been in the hospital but have been there for tests. Very efficient.

[giltner68]

Actually, NOB we used a poultice of MSG, Monosodium glutamate paste, applied to the sting to ease pain and swelling. Now, if you have an allergy, as others recommend seek medical attention immediately.

[valbogyo]

Actually, NOB we used a poultice of MSG, Monosodium glutamate paste, applied to the sting to ease pain and swelling. Now, if you have an allergy, as others recommend seek medical attention immediately.

Who are "we"? Sounds like an interesting solution.

[Hernan Santiago]

Clearly, Cruz Roja may be the place to go for minor injuries and x-rays, when they have the film to take them on their new machine. Seems to be a lot of disorganization there and excuses being made that are simply not acceptable for lack of care, lack of medicines and lack of X Ray film, whatever that is. When I was there, they sure had plenty of time for a cigaret break, comida and laughter outside, while patients inside were awaiting their attention. In the case of an emergency, I highly recommend 24/7 Maskaras clinic and the incredible Dr. Garcia, who saved my friend's life, after Cruz Roja refused to help him and actually brought the Chapala Police with them on their final visit, who kicked him and held his arms behind his back until he screamed in pain and then took their batons out to beat him, until I grabbed their hands and then wanted to take him to jail. I told them to leave my home. Yes, I do have witnesses. I am very soured on Cruz Roja and the thousands of pesos that I have donated over my eight years here. I wish them the best, but me, I am done.

[phil in mexico]

I want to thank all for the great comments and good discussion. I will be more prepared for an emergency in the future. I will also find the location of that clinic and I would advise any one looking for a emergency clinic to find that location but do it in the day time at your leisure cause at night it will not happen. I didn't think of the other available clinics at that time , as far as not stating my header correctly I guess I needed to say no meds for scorpion stings. Now I have used Cruz Rojo before and I have always paid more that there suggested price range, I was not looking for a Freebie! I think the folks working the other night could have handle it a little better yes. Will I continue to donate to Cruz Rojo Yes I will Getting such good info from this discussion will make me better prepared

Thanks Much,

Phil

[exHawaiian]

Clinica Ajijic did not have a defibrilator when my friend went there with an MI. And Cruz Roja did not have the components needed to use their defib. Very sad medical scene for emergencies. Donate, donate, donate to Cruz Roja, please. The life you save may be your own. I thought Clinica Mascaras got a new xray machine. Of course, new machine does not mean skilled operator.

[R2D2]

This is really bad, when I lived in Chapala, I always complained about the lack of quality emergency services and a good reliable hospital that could handle emergencies 24/7, whether be it private or public.

Twice I had to drive at night all the way to Guad to take care of health emergencies in my family.

IMSS,Cruz Roja, Centro de Salud and Clinica Municipal are completely useless for emergencies, be prepared to have someone drive you all the way to Guad and make sure the driver knows how to get there at first try.

Lakeside is paradise but when it comes to health emergencies it may become a nightmare.

The Clinic near the cementery is the Clinica Municipal, is located about 2-3 blocks north of Soriana, they have service 24/7 but only for minor stuff.

[Intercasa]

I went to visit someone at the Hospital Civil in Guadalajara today. Red Cross looks like a day spa compared to that place, the Hospital Civil looks like a military hospital in a wartorn country during a war, rows of beds 50 long no privacy and weird smells and pretty primitive. You share a huge room with up to 100 people. FWIW

[regc80]

I got stung by a scorpion a few weeks ago. Luckily I had some MMS. I diluted 20 drops in 30ml water and applied to the sting. The sting immediately dissapated, and I kept applying it, and after 5 min. it was completely gone. Cost < one cent.

[MtnMama]

Do you mean MSM? Like you take for arthritis and like I give my elderly dogs? And if so, where do you get a liquid? I get mine in a powder from Ladrone.