2023 Hottest year on record

[HoneyBee]

According to a Reuters article this morning, 2023 was the hottest year on record world wide. In Chapala. the temperature climbed a little above 37 Celsius. I finally gave up and went to Mazamitla for 10days. Am making plans to spend several months in the Metepec area this summer  because a seriously doubt we will see any improvement this year. To bad many do not believe in climate change. (you may go to paradise but it will probably be as hot as hell 😊).

[Voir dire]

It is weather, it will always change and have cycles throughout the years, warmer cycles and colder cycles.  

[Jreboll]

2 hours ago, Voir dire said:

It is weather, it will always change and have cycles throughout the years, warmer cycles and colder cycles.  

The facts state otherwise.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/09/climate/temperature-rise-2023-climate-copernicus-intl/index.html

[Mostlylost]

One problem is how far back acurate records go. Another  problem is many of the "official" measuring stations are in areas that are now surrounded by urban structures, and pavements possibly causing higher recordings than before. 

And if you doubt there are climate cycles in the history of the world then you doubt scientific studies.
 

Heard on a weather report recently This storm is the worst recorded since 1929. These more intense storms have climate change as the cause.  My question is if it worse in 1929 what caused it then???

[HoneyBee]

The 1929 wall street crash 😊

Agree about urban structure effecting measurements but let me just say this, I grew up in the French speaking part of Switzerland and as a kid made several visits to the Rhone glacier which feeds the lake Leman. At that time they had a tunnel carved out so you could walk in to its guts. Today that glacier is nothing more then  a pop icicle. Luckily, many governments are taking action by subsidizing wind and solar energy and just recently, the Biden administration infused billions of dollars for the production and distribution of green hydrogen.  I hope to see this change before I go.....

[Mostlylost]

Climate cycles for many reasons. Is there global warming now? yes   Is it caused by carbon dioxide in the atmosphere rising?  Partly   What is the cause of the higher carbon dioxide levels?   surmised by many to be humans  but there are natural causes as well.  Even volcanic eruptions spew huge amounts of carbon dioxide. 

Roughly 20,000 years ago the great ice sheets that buried much of Asia, Europe and North America stopped their creeping advance. Within a few hundred years sea levels in some places had risen by as much as 10 meters—more than if the ice sheet that still covers Greenland were to melt today. This freshwater flood filled the North Atlantic and also shut down the ocean currents that conveyed warmer water from equatorial regions northward. The equatorial heat warmed the precincts of Antarctica in the Southern Hemisphere instead, shrinking the fringing sea ice and changing the circumpolar winds. As a result—and for reasons that remain unexplained—the waters of the Southern Ocean may have begun to release carbon dioxide, enough to raise concentrations in the atmosphere by more than 100 parts per million over millennia—roughly equivalent to the rise in the last 200 years. That CO2 then warmed the globe, melting back the continental ice sheets and ushering in the current climate that enabled humanity to thrive.

The reason for the retreat of the ice sheets remains elusive, however. Whereas there was a change in the relative strength of the sun roughly 20,000 years ago thanks to variations in the planet's orbit, it was smaller than changes that preceded it and failed to trigger a melt. In fact, ice cores from Greenland suggest there was an even larger warming event in the north roughly 60,000 years ago, notes climate scientist Eric Wolff of the British Antarctic Survey in a comment on the findings also published in Nature.

"We know that the only thing changing in the Northern Hemisphere [20,000 years ago] were these orbital changes" that affect the amount of sunlight striking the far north, explains geologist Peter Clark of Oregon State University, who guided Shakun's research. The melting in the north could have been triggered "because the ice sheets had reached such a size that they had become unstable and were ready to go." This may also help explain the cyclical rise and fall of ice ages over hundreds of thousands of years.

“Recent research shows that the volume of volcanic CO2 currently being emitted into Earth’s atmosphere is far greater than previously calculated, challenging the validity of the man-made global warming theory.

 

[Mainecoons]

1 hour ago, Jreboll said:

The facts state otherwise.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/09/climate/temperature-rise-2023-climate-copernicus-intl/index.html

The key phrase in this hysterical piece is "on record."

Records of any kind of reliable accuracy go back maybe a couple hundred years.  Beyond that, geologic history shows us this planet has been both far warmer and far colder than the last two hundred years.  Life went on through all of it.  However, when it comes to people, history shows us cold killed far more than warmth.

"On record" really is insignificant in the context of the history of this planet just since man emerged.

The other problem is urbanization affect temperature measurements which have largely been taken in and adjacent to urban areas, which have been growing rapidly and affecting the microclimate around them.  Even if the thermometers of 200 years ago were as good as those now, they were far less subject to this effect.

Wind and solar is no answer to anything for the simple reason that when the sun doesn't shine or the wind doesn't blow, there is no energy production.  But you don't just suddenly stop needing energy to live.  Both of these technologies, particularly wind, carry very large environmental costs in both the production of the equipment and the disposal of same when it wears out. 

The ultimate foolery are these "electric" cars, largely recharged from fossil fuel sources, requiring massively damaging mining for the production of batteries for which no one has really devised what to do with them when they reach the end of their useful lives in 10 years.

Hydrogen produced by cracking water shows a lot of promise.  I've been following a company that is trying to commercialize hydrogen production direct from solar energy.  Effort spent in developing hydrogen fuels would be far more productive than the colossal waste of electric cars. 

The U.S. has made more progress in reducing carbon emissions than almost anyone but this accomplishment is totally negated by the rapid increase in carbon emissions in China and India.  China in particular has more coal fired power plants under construction than exist in the entire U.S. today.  When it comes to both pollution and carbon emissions, China dwarfs the U.S., Canada and Mexico combined.  The Chinese are also by far the worst polluters of the world's oceans.

At the bottom of all this is too many people everywhere burning too much carbon fuel of all kinds to keep warm and cool, move around and produce stuff.  In my lifetime the population of this planet has doubled and it is still going up.  It is not the developed world driving the population problem either.   

Things would look a lot different if we had half the population and what has already been accomplished in producing and using energy more efficiently.  In any case attacking and burdening the secondary players while turning a blind eye to the real culprits simply results in shifting production from the cleanest to the dirtiest and making things just that much worse. 

Locally, the big story for us was the early emergence of a strong El Niño after a rare three year run of La Niña, the cold water condition.  It definitely threw a monkey wrench into our rainy season.   We could well be into a repeat of one of those periods of below average rainfall and a big drop in the lake level such as was seen around here in the early 2000's.

[HoneyBee]

I believe that by 2030 you will see the results of the transition from dirty to clean energy. It takes time but look what has been achieved in the past 8 years, its impressive. Myself, after selling my tesla stock and building my first castle 😊 I  got involved with Nikola Motors. Its not for the faint of heart as I bought my first shares at the equivalent of 580 pesos bought some more at 300 pesos and lastly at 23 pesos a share. They are now trading at around 13 pesos a share. But Nikola has finally started the commercial production of their class 8 hydrogen fuel cell truck in September of last year. Many car and truck companies are moving towards the use of hydrogen fuel cells to power their products. Time will tell (I may lose my investments but at least I was right in believing in fuel cells as the future). 

[NEWMtnMama]

Always interesting to see all the propaganda from the fossil fuel industry. Listen to the Open Circle presentations by Dr Don Aitken over the years and learn from an internationally recognized expert.

[Mainecoons]

1 hour ago, HoneyBee said:

I believe that by 2030 you will see the results of the transition from dirty to clean energy. It takes time but look what has been achieved in the past 8 years, its impressive. Myself, after selling my tesla stock and building my first castle 😊 I  got involved with Nikola Motors. Its not for the faint of heart as I bought my first shares at the equivalent of 580 pesos bought some more at 300 pesos and lastly at 23 pesos a share. They are now trading at around 13 pesos a share. But Nikola has finally started the commercial production of their class 8 hydrogen fuel cell truck in September of last year. Many car and truck companies are moving towards the use of hydrogen fuel cells to power their products. Time will tell (I may lose my investments but at least I was right in believing in fuel cells as the future). 

It is going to have to be hydrogen or something like it.  When one looks at total energy cost including fabrication, the current windmill technology is a total loser, not to mention the environmental impact of all those birds it kills.  And then there's those emerging studies that indicates the really big wind farms have adverse effects on rainfall downwind.  And the massive amount of petroleum based lubricants they require.  Dud.

These windmills are like those electric cars, a boondoggle that will be gone in 10 years after consuming and wasting billions and creating a massive solid waste problem.  No matter how you  slice it, the laws of physics dictate that batteries cannot store as much energy as a tank of gasoline.  But hydrogen can.

Fun to see someone label as propaganda the very basic fact that solar don't solar without sunshine and wind don't spin without...wind.  However, if someone can come up with a solar panel that works at night I will definitely replace all of my 18 with it.

Not holding my breath on that one.  

But solar is very economic at this point particularly when properly applied, that is, in places where it isn't cloudy all the time.  I did see somewhere that someone is developing a solar panel that produces power from UV, which is not stopped by clouds, as we've all learned from sunburns on cloudy days.  That could really make solar a lot more practical in a lot more places.

We don't get enough wind around here to matter, so that's out.  Methane capture from Mexican food aficionados...might be useful around here.  🤣

Nikola looks interesting, but the fuel sources have to catch up with the fuel users.  I'm following SunHydrogen which is trying to directly power hydrogen production solely from solar power.

When you see Freightliner and Mack building hydrogen powered trucks, you will know the technology has arrived.  

 

 

[Jreboll]

2 hours ago, NEWMtnMama said:

Always interesting to see all the propaganda from the fossil fuel industry. Listen to the Open Circle presentations by Dr Don Aitken over the years and learn from an internationally recognized expert.

Fossil fuel industry now has another worry, microplastics, and the deniers are already lining up.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/08/health/bottled-water-nanoplastics-study-wellness/index.html

[Mainecoons]

We're all going to die........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Borrowed from another thread, this is perfect for here IMO.  🤣

 

[HoneyBee]

15 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

It is going to have to be hydrogen or something like it.  When one looks at total energy cost including fabrication, the current windmill technology is a total loser, not to mention the environmental impact of all those birds it kills.  And then there's those emerging studies that indicates the really big wind farms have adverse effects on rainfall downwind.  And the massive amount of petroleum based lubricants they require.  Dud.

These windmills are like those electric cars, a boondoggle that will be gone in 10 years after consuming and wasting billions and creating a massive solid waste problem.  No matter how you  slice it, the laws of physics dictate that batteries cannot store as much energy as a tank of gasoline.  But hydrogen can.

Fun to see someone label as propaganda the very basic fact that solar don't solar without sunshine and wind don't spin without...wind.  However, if someone can come up with a solar panel that works at night I will definitely replace all of my 18 with it.

Not holding my breath on that one.  

But solar is very economic at this point particularly when properly applied, that is, in places where it isn't cloudy all the time.  I did see somewhere that someone is developing a solar panel that produces power from UV, which is not stopped by clouds, as we've all learned from sunburns on cloudy days.  That could really make solar a lot more practical in a lot more places.

We don't get enough wind around here to matter, so that's out.  Methane capture from Mexican food aficionados...might be useful around here.  🤣

Nikola looks interesting, but the fuel sources have to catch up with the fuel users.  I'm following SunHydrogen which is trying to directly power hydrogen production solely from solar power.

When you see Freightliner and Mack building hydrogen powered trucks, you will know the technology has arrived.  

 

 

Freightliner and Kenworth both have Hydrogen Fuel cell powered trucks in the works. From memory, Kenworth is using Toyota's fuel cell technology. 

On a side note, you can use battery packs to store energy produced by wind and sun to be used when needed. 

In my mind windmills have a good future. You mention the massive amount of lubricants they require. True, but a 165 MW gas turbine has a lubricant tank capacity of about 15 thousand liters (and this is by memory). Currently, they are in the process of building a 1000 MW wind farm off the coast of Connecticut, time will tell if it effects rain fall on land. 

[Toyhauler 4u]

 

 

https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/goddard/tonga-eruption-blasted-unprecedented-amount-of-water-into-stratosphere/

[HoneyBee]

I think the key word in this article is "Temporarily".

[Jreboll]

21 hours ago, Mostlylost said:

One problem is how far back acurate records go. Another  problem is many of the "official" measuring stations are in areas that are now surrounded by urban structures, and pavements possibly causing higher recordings than before. 

And if you doubt there are climate cycles in the history of the world then you doubt scientific studies.
 

Heard on a weather report recently This storm is the worst recorded since 1929. These more intense storms have climate change as the cause.  My question is if it worse in 1929 what caused it then???

You’re insane!  We’re talking about OUR cycle, the one we’re living.  Maybe there’ll be a cold cycle to follow this one but we’ll all be extinct by then.  
let’s do what we can to ameliorate what seems to be a very uncomfortable next few years.

[Mainecoons]

Which is nothing.  Maybe though you could try sharing the angst with the Chinese and India and see what the response is.  And good luck with that.  

Our cycle is a long way from killing us.  What does appear to be happening, though, is that higher CO2, the food for plants and hence the supporter of all life, is causing greening of the planet.  

We are in a lot more danger from overpopulation and the spreading chaos and decline of civilization planet wide than any small changes in temperature which may or may not reoccur next year depending on what El Niño does. 

Heck, we're probably in more danger from getting run over on the Carretera or breaking our necks on the rustic sidewalks around here.   🤣

Man, I can't believe old people here in God's waiting room South actually spend time worrying about something they can't do a damned thing about instead of enjoying the time we have left in this still quite beautiful place with arguably the best climate in the world.  Talk about nuts.

LOL

[HoneyBee]

32 minutes ago, Jreboll said:

You’re insane!  We’re talking about OUR cycle, the one we’re living.  Maybe there’ll be a cold cycle to follow this one but we’ll all be extinct by then.  
let’s do what we can to ameliorate what seems to be a very uncomfortable next few years.

Glad to see that at least you still have some common sense. Thank you

[Mainecoons]

17 hours ago, Jreboll said:

Fossil fuel industry now has another worry, microplastics, and the deniers are already lining up.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/08/health/bottled-water-nanoplastics-study-wellness/index.html

There are something like 6000 things made from oil and gas.  Please peruse the lists shown here and assure us you either are not using any of them or you can go on living without any of them.

https://energyneresources.com/blog/list-of-products-made-from-petroleum

[Mainecoons]

3 minutes ago, HoneyBee said:

Glad to see that at least you still have some common sense. Thank you

Common sense is knowing when things are a lot bigger than one is.

I'll offer you the same opportunity.  

There are something like 6000 things made from oil and gas.  Please peruse the lists shown here and assure us you either are not using any of them or you can go on living without any of them.

https://energyneresources.com/blog/list-of-products-made-from-petroleum

[HoneyBee]

Well I never intended to discuss about stuff made that requires petroleum. My thread was to have a civilized conversation about the contamination of the air we breath and the water we drink and the consequences of global warming (the 3r world war should handle the over population and its coming are way). So getting back to hydrogen you will note that it is being adopted by pretty much all truck makers.

[Ferret]

46 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Man, I can't believe old people here in God's waiting room South actually spend time worrying about something they can't do a damned thing about instead of enjoying the time we have left in this still quite beautiful place with arguably the best climate in the world.  Talk about nuts.

LOL

It's not nuts and it's definitely not funny. Some of us are actually worried about the lives of the people who come after us... including our grandchildren who are not living in this still quite beautiful place.

[HoneyBee]

Thank you Ferret  (use up my quota of reactions..)

[Jreboll]

“We are in a lot more danger from overpopulation and the spreading chaos and decline of civilization planet wide than any small changes in temperature which may or maynot reoccur next year depending on what El Niño does. ” MC

check out the demographics for the developed world and most countries are in decline if it wasn’t for migration.  Africa and India are the few areas that are growing.

[Mainecoons]

2 hours ago, Ferret said:

It's not nuts and it's definitely not funny. Some of us are actually worried about the lives of the people who come after us... including our grandchildren who are not living in this still quite beautiful place.

Do them a favor and don't fill their heads with doom and gloom.  You have no idea what the weather is going to be like next week, let alone in 50 years.  We are a very small minority of the world population and the big polluters could care less what we think or do.  They do love it, however, when we punish our clean countries while they go right on building coal fired power plants and throwing trash in the ocean.

BTW, the country we live in now isn't one of the clean ones either.