NOISE PROBLEM AT PLAZA BUGAMBILIAS UPSTAIRS IN AJIJIC

[CHILLIN]

You guys don't get it. Even if your choice of music is "so freakingly awesome the whole neighborhood will want to hear it!" is still noise pollution, acoustical terrorism (as John Pint points out). The additional trouble with live bands is that they play the same sets, night after night - gratingly boring.

[ComputerGuy]

Let me start by saying I am against late-night outdoor music, for profit, in this or any other small town, that is unregulated and ruins people's nights.

That being said, I can't believe some of the comments. We have posters here decrying any kind of music they don't like as "noise". You sound like the same people that wanted to ban Bill Hailey and then Elvis Presley.

[alphacat]

Aw...that would be nice Travis.

Think I'd kinda prefer a Santana and Mana reunion...and let 'em crank it up!

Thanks Alex, and EZPZ, Fantastico!

[ComputerGuy]

Bill Haley and Elvis didn't use HUGE speakers at midnight across the street from me....

Sorry, completely unrelated to my comment.

[CHILLIN]

The people who wanted Bill Haley and Elvis banned were a very small minority fueled by religious fervor and racism (Elvis was performing"black" music). It you want to get together a group of like thinking souls to stage the Ajijic Little Theatre production of "Footloose", go ahead.

The people strenuously opposed to noise pollution, such as the E.P.A. in the U.S.A., have been doing so since 1972. Most States in the U.S.A. banned "boom cars" beginning in the 1990's. Like it or not Mexico City has witnessed a huge drop in air pollution, noise pollution and drunk driving - if you think that will not effect the rest of Mexico you are wrong.

Interestingly, I have no Bill Haley or Elvis Presley in my music collection. I do have some Elvis Costello, I have seen him in concert, as a matter of fact I was operating the spotlight. I have been working stages since I was 14 years old. EZPZ is totally correct that the people operating the typical "el cheapo" Chinese sound systems that have invaded Mexico, have absolutely no clue how to set them up. Some of the DJ's do, they setup for pounding bass, and just leave it for the next person to come along. If that person is acoustic guitar, for example, it is going to sound awful - count on it.

[ComputerGuy]

A refer you to a specific comment: "BECAUSE IT IS ONLY NOISE". That is only true to those who don't like it, and that is exactly what the Haley detractors said. And it wasn't a "small minority": it was the aggragate of most parents of the day.

The people who are putting on events like this, and the people attending, obviously don't think it's noise. I happen to think it's too loud for the neighbourhood, but I'm sure as heck not willing to label it as noise just because I don't like it. And in my opinion. anyone automatically agreeing that it's "only noise" is falling into the trap of that same group mentality that we all protest about the rest of the time.

If you want to compare "experience" to give your argument "weight", then consider that I owned a recording studio for 10 years, was heavily involved in the film and TV industry in Canada for half my life, and was road manager/soundboard for a band in my home town for several years.

[alex45920]

In 1965 the Beatles were banned from performing in Mexico. I guess their music was considered just a lot of "noise" back then.

[ComputerGuy]

Good one. Actually, they were considered "dangerous to the youth" here, and in Israel the same year.

[Mainecoons]

The Beatles didn't have huge speakers and amplifiers. They weren't banned because of their volume, they were banned because the authorities thought the content of their music was dangerous for children.

If you're going to trivialize something you're not a part of, Alex, at least try and get the story straight.

[alex45920]

Evidently, you never heard of the Vox Beatle and Super Beatle amplifiers, huh? Come on, MC...get a clue.

[sayaca]

Once again the proper procedure is:

The neighbors put together a complaint with as many signatures as possible. Note this is the second complaint against the same offender.

Submit to Official Mayor de Padron y Licencias in Chapala. It was C. Luis Ernesto Lopez Amavizca. Get a stamped copy back as proof of submission

(All events need a licence .Basic time limit is four hours or 11 p.m.. A one time permit can be had for 12 p.m. Only historical events by municipalities can go beyond this, i.e. village saints festivals)

Submit copies of the complaint to the mayors office and the chief of police. Again, get stamped copies as proof of submission.

According to the Guadalajara Reporter, at least two months ago, they appointed a new head of Reglamentos in Chapala. They had high hopes for him - he apparently had a unique personality, was thought to be honest, and was not too politically affiliated. An ideal candidate. He quit after two months. He said the tiangui and malecon vendors were an impossible group to work with, no possibilities of compromise. This is the group that seems to be the focus of enforcing the regulations. It could change after the elections.

Copies of a petition should also go to Moctezuma Medina, Dirección de Ecología; and Javier Cortés, Dirección de Reglamentos, Inspección y Vigilancia. The regulations office actually has staff assigned to work after regular city hall hours, with specific tasks to check that bars, etc. respect legal closing time.

Javier Cortés was named to act as regulations chief following the May 15 resignation of Juan José Torres who quit (as Huerta's 4th dept. director) after 9 months on the job. FYI, Javier was one of the inspectors who showed up a late hours in to response to complaints of clandestine installation of cel. phone towers.

[HarryB]

WOW someone who actually made the effort to find something out. I am impressed!!!

[Al Berca]

Agree. So many opinions. So few facts.

[ComputerGuy]

But Al, this whole thread is, in effect, based on opinions.

[johanson]

But how loud was this noise (music)? Many folks are complaining but no one is stating how loud the music is, you know how many dBs loud the music was.

Your first reaction to this, will be, "Johanson, you are crazy, I just know that it is too loud". Well there are regulations that state how many dBs are allowed at different times and different types of locations.

And if you have a smart phone you can download a free app that will measure how many dBs loud the music was. Now your noise app will not be calibrated the same as the officials sound meter, but he will get the idea if in your complaint you quantify or state how loud the noise was.

Just a suggestion. And yes I downloaded that app and yes I can measure how loud the noise is, just like you can. What type of smartphone am I using? I downloaded the app to an old iPhone 4.

[Mainecoons]

85 db in the street in front of our neighborhood "restaurant" on Monday evening.

That's A weighted scale, supposed to be the correct one.

I think that is more than twice the permitted level.

Sayaca, thank you VERY much.

Ezpz, PM me and let's talk. It is time to take an organized approach to these "noise for profit" operations.

[artsnob]

Some nites I can here the thumping base all the way to my casa down the street in Ajijic Centro

[johanson]

Mainecoons, 85 dB is way too loud, according to my limited understanding of allowed noise levels.

[alex45920]

I believe these these clubs would be considered commercial venues, which are allowed 65-68 dBs, depending on the time of day (or night).

http://www.saudicaves.com/mx/noise/index.html

[alex45920]

In rereading the article linked above, I see there's a category that allows "Ceremonies, Festivals and Entertainment Events" a100 dB limit. The Bugambilias Plaza events may fall into this category.

[HarryB]

for a max of 4 hours

[Willie]

We have similar problems here in Mazatlan so I printed off the referenced regulation and give a copy to each offender in our neighborhood, including the political advertising that is going on now. When I give it to them, I always give them the benefit of not being aware of the regs...saves face for all.

[ezpz]

OK, Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Thursday night, Plaza B had the same sort of "karaoke" (teenagers singing along with videos on a very large screen) which started out with dynamic more traditional Mexican music. As usual, the scene degenerated into the usual totally drunken screaming and howling. I went up twice, once around 10 and once around 12 just to see how many people were there on the terrace - only about 20! So, the whole neighborhood suffers while the volume is loud enough for 500 people! This is the crux of the problem. The speakers are smaller than last year's setup, appropriate for 1000-2000 people. In a small, outdoor club.

It started raining around 12:30 but that did not deter the small bunch of young drunks who kept "singing in the rain" until about 2a.m., then continued out in the street as the drunks got in their cars to drive away.

There is (was?) a sort of awning/sail (like the "sail" at the end of the Chapala malecon) rigged up over the bar to deflect the rain.

However, the "sail" is not visible tonight - maybe because of the heavy wind last night? Karma, Karma?? And it seems quiet over there, although it sounds like there is a house party nearby.

If you look at old videos of the Beatles live, they were not using huge speakers. The Beatles usually got drowned out by all the screaming girls - but nowadays, they use speakers that size in small clubs.

We NEVER heard anything back in those days that was so LOUD as today! We enjoyed our little radio speakers. Bars had jukeboxes with speakers only a little larger than the average home stereo. Well, I was never in a bar at that point, I'm remembering the pinball hall near my school.

I don't have a DB meter, but I can tell you this: On the Monday night before Carnaval in February, there was the usual banda concert at the Lienzo Charro, 1 block from my house. I heard some rock music over that and remembered that the TB were playing at the once elegant #4 - 3 long blocks from my house, sounding like equal volume to me -the much smaller rock group making as much noise as (or more than?) a 15-piece banda. The TB and all their fans should all have their hearing checked - there could be a serious problem there...

Yes, it does make a huge difference if you are forced to listen to fine, professional musicians of any type, or amateur hacks who substitute volume for talent. But, after a while, any loud noise pumped into your house repeatedly will drive you nuts - and that is why MX now has a decibel law to protect the health and sanity of the population.

I repeat, I am in complete agreement with my Mexican neighbors about this noise problem as I have stated above.

Here Comes The Rain Again...shutting down, hasta luego!

[gringohombre]

Waaat?....Wassa app? and please hip me to the db. Maybe it's the vinto tinto but what I really loved about this thread was the music videos. Gracias

[Mainecoons]

EZPZ I do have a db meter with the correct A weighted scale. Let me know if you need it.