HarryB Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Is this a test to see if anyone is willing to try to get the federal noise levels law enforced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johanson Posted February 1, 2014 Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 I have a DB meter somewhere. The trouble is, it's almost never very loud where I live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted February 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2014 Pete would you let our committee use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johanson Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Let me try to find it, put new batteries in it and see if it works. It did the last time I used it maybe 5 to 8 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcscats Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 OK lets be fair about this. If you choose to measure sound be sure to use the correct scale to measure sound. Different scales for different use. First find out how the law measures sound and measure the same way. Lots of folks play fast and loose by using different scales. It does matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I have a db meter. The new standard is based on the A weighted scale so any meter you use has to have this setting. Mine does. I'd be happy to help someone make measurements just to see what readings we get. I suggest for starters making copies of the new standard, making measurements, writing the measurement on the copy and handing it to the offender. Harry, perhaps your committee could address enforcement and inform the community how to get it when needed. As it stands now, I suspect none of us have a clue how that might be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted February 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 We are looking for an appointment with the chief of police to discuss the matter. Thanks for the additional info. For a lark, we measured the dbs at Adelitas last night and came up with a max of 112.4, but, I don't know what scale the ap was using. People were asking for the band to tune it down, which they seemed to not want to do. It is strange that bands would rather see patrons walk out than accomodate. The federal limit of 100 seems reasonable, based on what we experienced last night. I spoke to Jason,but, don't know if he will take the info to heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezpz Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 I'm glad to see there are people getting on this noise pollution problem - half of which is caused by gringo rock bands, which the Mexican neighbors are completely sick of by now. I know because I speak Spanish and live in the most affected area. I also met a nice (Mexican) couple at the balneario who lives near Adelita's and they were not happy either. The Mexican people are so tolerant and non-complaining (officially) but if you chat with them,in Espanol, they will voice their displeasure. Few gringos understand that this is a cultural conflict that the people here are not happy about. It's the People vs the Richer, Louder, Later Invader cutlure. I put that mildly... The latest and newest problem is the noise emanating from Plaza Bugambilias which is trying to re-invent itself as a weekend late night club. The "music" is excrutiatingly monotonous, pounding, "techno" which is like a junk food version of what could be a cool style which also emanates from the US. Being totally mechanical, unlike musicians who need breaks, it goes on for hours. They don't even have a DJ there, only a couple of teenagers running utube videos for sound - hooked up to speakers way too big! Their new dance area is OUTSIDE! There are no walls to absorb the sound, and it blasts even when no one is there. I checked it out myself. Mercifully (and I'm afraid to say too much too soon) the Saturday night "events" have been a big muffled lately, but ya never know... the place is in a state of flux... This is also alien music which clashes with the local culture. One has to wonder about the feasibility of this "business model" for various reasons. So, being situated between El Barco and the Cine, can be dreadful, in an otherwise very good location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanMexicali Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Sound: "The decibel (dB) is the universal unit of sound measurement and is measured with a meter that registers sound pressure and displays these readings on a sound level scale. Decibels are a logarithmic unit, which means that a noise measuring 30 decibels is actually 10 times louder than a noise registering at 20 decibels. One challenge of measuring sound in the city is that there is a high level of ambient sound, or background noise in an area. For example, Times Square has high ambient sound levels, making it harder to distinguish the source of a sound. The same sound in a residential neighborhood may be easier to measure because there is less ambient sound. Sounds of the City Sound levels vary depending on one’s distance from the noise source. Below are some frequently heard sounds and their approximate decibel levels at common distances from the noise source. When designated as “dB(A),” as seen below, the measurement is weighted in the “A” scale to simulate human hearing. Whisper ........................................................... 30 dB(A) Normal Conversation/Laughter ....................... 50 – 65 dB(A) Vacuum Cleaner at 10 feet .............................. 70 dB(A) Washing Machine/Dishwasher ........................ 78 dB(A) Midtown Manhattan Traffic Noise ................... 70 – 85 dB(A) Motorcycle ...................................................... 88 dB(A) Lawnmower .................................................... 85 – 90 dB(A) Train ................................................................ 100 dB(A) Jackhammer/Power Saw ................................ 110 dB(A) Thunderclap .................................................... 120 dB(A) Stereo/Boom Box ........................................... 110 – 120 dB(A) Nearby Jet Takeoff .......................................... 130 dB(A)" I worked as a video engineer [retired for 6 years] in television and video production and studied and used professional sound equipment used the industry. 100 db or over on the A scale at 150 feet is deafening to listen to for many people for more than 10 minutes or so. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/noise_code_guide.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 You can go to this site and read all about it. There is a table of permissible levels. What I am not sure about is which standard applies to the local faux restaurants that are really loud music bars. http://ranchopint.com/ You'll see the "Noise" tab on the front page. There is a table in the article, I tried to quote it but the quote function here doesn't seem to work right with it. Here it is, please note quoted from the above site. I am guessing that the "residence zone" would be like my street versus the "commercial zone" which might be the Carretera. The table below shows an English version of the new norms, which refer to fixed sources of noise like homes and factories rather than mobile sources such as vehicles, leaf blowers, etc. TABLE 1. MAXIMUM PERMISSABLE LIMITS ZONE TIMETABLE MAX PERMISSABLE LIMIT dB (A) Residence (outside) 6:00 to 22:00 22:00 to 6:00 55 50 Industrial & Commercial Sites 6:00 a 22:00 22:00 a 6:00 68 65 Schools (outdoor play areas) During recess 55 Ceremonies, Festivals & Entertainment Events 4 hours 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoGretchen Posted February 2, 2014 Report Share Posted February 2, 2014 Just now, as i was reading this thread, one block from Plaza B, the sound level strangely diminished noticeably..... prior to that my head was feeling like scrambled mush. If only it was actually music!!!... but we appreciate the lowered sound level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted February 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I know that the residents behind Plaza B filed complaints with Chapala officials (multiple) and threatened suits against them if they didn't enforce the laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezpz Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 The problem boils down to this: all these venues, and others not mentioned, use sound systems WAY too big for the size of their venue. Somebody really paid WAY too much for their sound, and then they don't even know how to use it! And the neighbors have to suffer! Once upon a time when live music was played outside here in Mexico, the instruments were all acoustic and the music was agreeable to just about everyone. Little by little, the sound systems have gotten bigger and bigger, carrying further and further - with no one paying attention how to use them. Plus, foreign influences have diluted the very cheerful and festive local culture. At what point do you have to start screaming for SOMETHING to be done? BTW I'm enjoying the long but cheerful pre-Carnaval Fiesta Taurina! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kindred Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 This debate seems to keep coming up and oftentimes when at a number of the aforementioned places I have nicely requested that the level be turned down -- I am a dancer and enjoy live music, but I have had to boycott some of these live music venues because what little hearing I have left I want to preserve. It is a sad time for me to not be able to go out and dance which I enjoy so much because I can't take the level of the volume. I know of many people that no longer frequent one particular place mentioned above -- why can't the owners and bands get a clue??? One of the lead singers in a popular band told me he couldn't dictate to his other band members -- now, really, you are the leader of the group....what gives? You would rather see people walk out or not come back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRC Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Is this a test to see if anyone is willing to try to get the federal noise levels law enforced? If the the sound is to loud how come Adelita's is packed every night they have music ? And what about the the dozen or so Mexicans that will lose the jobs if there is no music at Adelita's. Another case of a a miserable old gringo who wants to impose his ways on every one else. I was there there Saturday night, and the band asked the patrons several times if the music was to loud, the consensus was that it wasn't. It was also the consensus at my table and possibly the rest of the patrons that the person who was there that night bitching about the the noise should **** off back NOB and leave the people who want to enjoy life alone.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookie Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 HRC, have you ever been watching TV at home and decided to go do something else while someone else is watching a program they like? Ever thought their sound was too loud? What happens a lot is that the sound does not seem as loud when you are in the room but when you go to another room or back off a bit you get the benefit of the sound bouncing off various things or perhaps just coming straight at you. Also, the patrons are probably drinking and talking and making noise themselves and are not trying to relax and have a calm discussion in their home like the residents around this venue might be. No one is saying necessarily for there not to be music ... just that it is kept more contained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted February 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Son, before you tell mexican citizens to leave their own country check your own immigration status. It can easily change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 If the the sound is to loud how come Adelita's is packed every night they have music ? And what about the the dozen or so Mexicans that will lose the jobs if there is no music at Adelita's. Another case of a a miserable old gringo who wants to impose his ways on every one else. I was there there Saturday night, and the band asked the patrons several times if the music was to loud, the consensus was that it wasn't. It was also the consensus at my table and possibly the rest of the patrons that the person who was there that night bitching about the the noise should **** off back NOB and leave the people who want to enjoy life alone.. IMO, the central problem is that some of these places have been allowed to locate in very residential areas as restaurants and then later on they start with the over amplified music when they figure out they can make a lot more money selling booze and loud music. It is one thing to not live next to/near to one of them and enjoy going there occasionally for the loud music and dancing. You are volunteering for the experience. It is quite another thing to volunteer the neighbors in a residential area to the same whether they like it or not. I really doubt that most Mexicans, particularly those who have to get up and go to work in the mornings, really appreciate being volunteered to listen to over-amplified gringo rock music night after night, week after week. Mexican bar owners may be making money off of this but it isn't music for Mexicans by Mexicans. It is a problem associated with expats. Loud bars don't belong in residential neighborhoods. Period. That is the crux of the problem. If the only way to control it is to crack down on sound levels, more power to it, maybe some of them will get the hint and relocate to more appropriate locations. In the mean time Harry, since we have one of the problem places very nearby, I'd appreciate some guidance as to what standard applies to them and how to get it enforced. Obviously from the above, relying on the customers to have consideration for the neighbors isn't a viable solution. Perhaps your committee could find out what the standards are and how they can be enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRC Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 The bars being mentioned have been in existence playing music for many many years with no complaints. Why complaints now... Is is because one gringo has moved into the area and wants the everyone to conform to his or her standards. These bars employ a lot of Mexicans and the bands that play are usually composed of 50% or more Mexican musicians. The music at Adelita's is Fri Sat only and from 8 to 11 pm never any later. The music in the square many nights is far louder and goes on much later. I would luv to see some true blue Mexicans post on this subject just to hear their opinion on noisy neighborhoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 The square is in the middle of a commercial area in Ajijic. Looks like mostly businesses and the church around the square in San Antonio. I can't speak for other squares but the entertainment in Ajijic is almost always directly associated with Mexican holidays and features Mexican music and bands. And the people who come out to listen are mainly Mexican. No, many of these places did not play loud music for many, many years. Nor did they do it for four or five nights per week. This has been a growing problem all over the area. No, there are a lot more than "one gringo" in these neighborhoods. These bars don't employ a lot of anyone. But I appreciate you admitting that they are really bars and not the restaurants they claim to be and how they got into these locations in the first place. No place located in a residential neighborhood should be allowed to play loud music there until 11PM at night. Interesting that you don't seem to understand that the new law was passed by Mexicans who obviously see the problem with gratuitous noise pollution. I seriously doubt that any expats had anything to do with the passage of the new noise law. It's our problem and we'll find a way to deal with it. Hopefully the new law will give us the leverage we need to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryB Posted February 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 well said maincoons. I have no bone to pick with Adelitas. I like the place. It isn't in my village so I have no right to do anything other than vote with my feet when the music is too loud. BTW I was a professional musician in part of my past life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luisa Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I lived behind La Bodega (we shared a wall) and I knew I was going to hear music most nights. I figured they were there first. I chose to live behind them. They were good neighbors who stopped the music at a decent hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcscats Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 HRC it is really nice of you to tell someone else who is like you a gringo or gringa to go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex45920 Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 Son, before you tell mexican citizens to leave their own country check your own immigration status. It can easily change. "...check your own immigration status. It can easily change." What is that supposed to mean, Harry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted February 3, 2014 Report Share Posted February 3, 2014 I lived behind La Bodega (we shared a wall) and I knew I was going to hear music most nights. I figured they were there first. I chose to live behind them. They were good neighbors who stopped the music at a decent hour. I notice you don't live there anymore. You might want to ask your prior landlord what the expansion of volume and nights there has done to the value of their property and their ability to rent it. They were there first as a restaurant. Not a noisy night club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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