Reverse culture shock - how happy are those who returned NOB?

[valbogyo]

I was just reading an article about repatriation of an American expat who returned to the US after living for 7 years in Paris. My cousin, who lived in China for seven years, before returning to Canada...... found she could no longer fit in. She is back, living in Hong Kong and plans to retire in Singapore. Just recently, I met a couple who lived in Mexico for six years, returned to Canada and are considering moving back to Mexico. Initially they were excited to be home near their Grandkids.... but they have had a good visit, are in good heath and miss the lifestyle in Mexico.

I know of several people moving back to Canada from the lake Chapala area. I can remember some of the conversations about why they were leaving Canada, a few years ago....... as they were preparing for the initial move. They had compelling reasons for wanting to leave....

It really got me to wondering: how many people are content after returning "home"? I asked a similar question about a year or so ago. Since then, there seems to be an increase in the numbers leaving.

I have been in Canada for four months, and I miss Mexico so much. We just experienced "June-uary" in B.C. and it is just now getting warm. I have a part time job, this summer, that makes up for the higher cost of living.... and reminds me that to remain in Canada would require I continue working.....

What I miss about Mexico: Weather, fresh produce year round, low cost for entertainment and travel, great friends, fast/easy access to non emergency medical care, affordable pedicures and hair styling. These four months have reminded me of why I wanted to move to Mexico. I count the days until I return to my casa.

People, on this board, advise those interested in moving to the Lake Chapala area to spend time visiting the area... renting a place before making the leap. Should the advice be similar when considering a move back to the home land? I just wonder if people forget why they left in the first place.

[phxfunguy]

I have to return to Phoenix every six months for business reasons and to help a friend for medical purposes. These are my impressions from the two week trip each time (I had lived there 26 years while I worked and really enjoyed it way more than my home state of Minnesota, summer heat didn't bother me as I was inside working in AC and the evenings were great around the pool with no bugs.) I own a house there which I rent to a good friend and I maintain my own bedroom in it with the "stuff" I still own. Didn't move anything here except the wardrobe. Bought a furnished house and went shopping for what was needed. But now:

[1] It's fun to go on the trip and see friends, we have a big dinner on the patio once and then I see only one or two again during the trip, that's it.

[2] I keep up my morning walk on an urban walking path full of joggers in the morning. Most turn their heads away from you when they pass or are so engrossed in their headset, that they don't "see" you, a few return my "good morning." By the end of the two weeks about 1/3 of them greet me as I look to make eye contact. Here nearly everyone on the malecón greets you with "buenos días" even if they don't recognize you.

[3] My PHX house is in a historic neighborhood of smaller homes from the 20's to the 40's. I walk up and down the streets (3 x 4 blocks worth) and rarely see a neighbor I recognize or who greets me...I've lived there 12 years and always used to walk my dogs regularly. Totally different in my neighborhood in Chapala.

[4] Now the worst part...I go to Costco, Walmart, McDonald's (just for a one time fix of their French fries) and observe totally out of control children having public meltdowns with parents screaming that the behavior is making THEM (the parents) feel or look bad, foul language from both kids and parents. I'd never paid much attention to this until I'd lived in Mexico and can hardly think of an incident here where a kid was screaming for no reason at an egocentric parent..

[5] At those same venues I'm struck at the gross obesity of the citizens pushing their pallets of soda, beer, and carbohydrates to the register. Now I'm struck when I see a grossly overweight Mexican here, even of the genetic type, it's such a rarity.

[6] I also notice the stress in people's facial expressions, body language, and impulsive actions that you really never see here, hustling around, always late for something, scheduling 6-8 things to do in a single day. Sure people are late here too, but I really don't feel a nervous reaction from the Mexican circular vision of time. We may stress about it until we learn to relax and go with the flow too.

[7] The wide fast streets are a breeze to drive on and you get to your longer distance destination faster, but they feel so impersonal and unfriendly as you don't dare look for someone you know walking on the sidewalk, the traffic is too fast and they're too far away....and oh, I forgot, no one's walking on the sidewalk anyway!

[8] My house is fairly tightly packed with the "stuff" I had pared down from the previously owned much larger house, I had gotten rid of a lot, I thought. Now the house seems too full of stuff and each time I return, I pull out some of it and give it away. I wish it would feel open and clean like my house here.

So after my two week stint in NOBolandia, I'm more than ready to return to my little town and really live life. Even though I quit my Zocor when I came here, my cholesterol has continued to drop over 50 points additionally with continuing the same type of low fat diet and exercise regimen here as I had done up North. The only thing different is that I feel so totally relaxed here. It's not verifiable medical proof, but I'll take those numbers any day.

[redpepper]

I have to return to Phoenix every six months for business reasons and to help a friend for medical purposes. These are my impressions from the two week trip each time (I had lived there 26 years while I worked and really enjoyed it way more than my home state of Minnesota, summer heat didn't bother me as I was inside working in AC and the evenings were great around the pool with no bugs.) I own a house there which I rent to a good friend and I maintain my own bedroom in it with the "stuff" I still own. Didn't move anything here except the wardrobe. Bought a furnished house and went shopping for what was needed. But now:

[1] It's fun to go on the trip and see friends, we have a big dinner on the patio once and then I see only one or two again during the trip, that's it.

[2] I keep up my morning walk on an urban walking path full of joggers in the morning. Most turn their heads away from you when they pass or are so engrossed in their headset, that they don't "see" you, a few return my "good morning." By the end of the two weeks about 1/3 of them greet me as I look to make eye contact. Here nearly everyone on the malecón greets you with "buenos días" even if they don't recognize you.

[3] My PHX house is in a historic neighborhood of smaller homes from the 20's to the 40's. I walk up and down the streets (3 x 4 blocks worth) and rarely see a neighbor I recognize or who greets me...I've lived there 12 years and always used to walk my dogs regularly. Totally different in my neighborhood in Chapala.

[4] Now the worst part...I go to Costco, Walmart, McDonald's (just for a one time fix of their French fries) and observe totally out of control children having public meltdowns with parents screaming that the behavior is making THEM (the parents) feel or look bad, foul language from both kids and parents. I'd never paid much attention to this until I'd lived in Mexico and can hardly think of an incident here where a kid was screaming for no reason at an egocentric parent..

[5] At those same venues I'm struck at the gross obesity of the citizens pushing their pallets of soda, beer, and carbohydrates to the register. Now I'm struck when I see a grossly overweight Mexican here, even of the genetic type, it's such a rarity.

[6] I also notice the stress in people's facial expressions, body language, and impulsive actions that you really never see here, hustling around, always late for something, scheduling 6-8 things to do in a single day. Sure people are late here too, but I really don't feel a nervous reaction from the Mexican circular vision of time. We may stress about it until we learn to relax and go with the flow too.

[7] The wide fast streets are a breeze to drive on and you get to your longer distance destination faster, but they feel so impersonal and unfriendly as you don't dare look for someone you know walking on the sidewalk, the traffic is too fast and they're too far away....and oh, I forgot, no one's walking on the sidewalk anyway!

[8] My house is fairly tightly packed with the "stuff" I had pared down from the previously owned much larger house, I had gotten rid of a lot, I thought. Now the house seems too full of stuff and each time I return, I pull out some of it and give it away. I wish it would feel open and clean like my house here.

So after my two week stint in NOBolandia, I'm more than ready to return to my little town and really live life. Even though I quit my Zocor when I came here, my cholesterol has continued to drop over 50 points additionally with continuing the same type of low fat diet and exercise regimen here as I had done up North. The only thing different is that I feel so totally relaxed here. It's not verifiable medical proof, but I'll take those numbers any day.

# 5 Mexico is not far behind.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_obe-health-obesity.

want to compare more?

[lakeside7]

I guess people do not “return” for one reason, but a number of reasons, with one of them being the decider..The last straw could be health reasons, for “Free” coverage that we get NOB…I think it would surprise people living here, who wine and dine on a regular basis, how many are living close to their means.

I know of one person who had to return to the US and live in Section 8 housing and use Medicaid..Many of us had a choice to move south, but as we have gotten older that choice is sometimes taken away from us and necessity gets in the way.

[suzanjo]

I am soon on my 4th year in Mexico. I return for a cpl months each Spring to visit my large family, including children and grandchildren. Thinking of living 1/2 year in each country, this year by the second month, I was again ready to return to Mexico. The only way I can live independently in the USA is work part time to support the higher costs. Most jobs are not seasonal. The grocery store is always shocking and overwhelming. Too many choices, and most of it crap. People are all so busy working and stressing to have much down time to enjoy life. The google crime reports of "shots fired", show over 100 per city per weekend. Safe?

Now I am thinking, 2 weeks in the Spring. and perhaps again in the fall, should be plenty of time with those people I am so lonesome for when in Mexico. That is about the extent of a decent climate for getting outdoors too! It is very expensive traveling back and forth, so not sure what can be done about that yet.

[virgogirl]

ValGal, this is a thought provoking post. And followed by Phoenixguy, some compatible observations there similar to my own.

I can't figure out why RedPepper has to copy the whole previous post to disagree about obesity. Anyway, it is obvious to me that some Mexicans are over the top with obesity as well.

The bigger point is that reverse culture shock is real for many of us. I haven't been back to the USA since I moved here a year and a half ago. While I look forward to visiting family and friends, I am certain that I will be ready after two weeks there to get home and milk the elk!!!!

American society turns me off in more ways than one. Yes, I have discontent with aspects of Mexican society, but overall, I find much more interesting and pleasing that NOB. I take it as it comes. I'm sure if I ever had a severe experience down here, I might run back. I dunno......But my plan is to stay permanently and visit a couple times a year NOB.

[bmh]

I think going back is a very difficult thing for me, when I was younger I lived for a couple of years in England and I had a difficult time when I returned to France, after that I moved for one year but ended up staying 30 years to the States and every time I went back to France to visit, I knew it would be more difficult to go back, now I have been here in Mexico 12 years and I know I could not go back to the States France or England,

I miss not being with my family but at the same time the various cultures I lived in are part of my past and I know I cannot go back because things are constantly changing and I do not fit there any longer. I would have a very difficult psychological time if I had to move back for health reason to the States.

I think it would be easier for me to move to a brand new country than going back to anywhere I have lived before. I probably would move to Portugal so I could be closer to my family but could learn a new cultuer and language.

[kindred]

As a friend recently said, "The Excited States of Hysteria" -- does that sum it up, or what???

[valbogyo]

I am very stressed out here, in Canada. I could have a great day, shopping in Chapala, with a friend.... and have a bag of trinkets and treats for $25. In Canada, the same girls afternoon out will cost me at least $100. Its like I catch a materialistic virus and begin to want things. I call it the magpie syndrome. Anything glittery catches my attention and I want it. That could be 50 pesos in Mexico. Its usually $60 (or more) in Canada. I would be so embarrassed if my Mexican friends saw how many pairs of shoes I own. And I have less than most of my friends. Its a life I do not want, but seem so drawn to when here. In Mexico, its about relationships.... not things.

I know April and May were incredibly stressful for the entire Lakeside community. I spent many nights, up till the wee hours, reading about Mexico, the cartels and possible outcomes. I prayed for my Mexican friends, and listened to them..... devastated and heart broken. Then I would go to work (registering ER patients) where some 16 year old boy would be weeping because he had sprained a wrist and people were not paying enough attention to him. The constant whining and complaining when we are so blessed, here in Canada, is really sad.

I enjoy being in Mexico, where I feel I can make a difference. In Mexico life is somewhat raw and real and precious because you can not take for granted that you will be taken care of.

[bmh]

As a friend recently said, "The Excited States of Hysteria" -- does that sum it up, or what???

I think it is much more than that. You moved away and got exposed to a different way to look at life, meanwhile the people in the States have changed as well so when you go back you start seeing your own country the way foreigners may look at it. I know it is exactly what I do no matter what country I go back to. An

other thing is that if you stay away long enough you become a stranger in your own country.

I just got back from a month in Paris where I lived for 25 years, I had to relearn how to get gas, how to buy metro ticket, how to use the telephone and so on...things change very fast and I cannot imagine what it would be like for a person who would be away without visits to go back to a place after 20 years...talking about culture shock.

I think that the thing that bugs me the most during my last visit is how spoiled the kids in France were and how unfriendly people in general were and how uptight and entitled everyone seem to be.

[More Liana]

Thomas Wolfe was right: you can't go home again. The USA is no longer home. Home is Mexico.

I've been in Mexico for almost half my life. When I do visit the States, I feel like I am from a different planet. I don't know how to buy gasoline (What? I have to pay first, then pump my own gas, then go get change? Or do what with my credit card?) or pay for groceries (Strip down? Right here in front of God and everybody? Oh, that strip!) or see a doctor (WHAT! His first appointment is in HOW MANY weeks? But I'm sick today! And he charges WHAT?) or schlep a Costco cart full of stuff to load into my car--(What? Where's the helper guy?).

And when I come home to Mexico, I breathe a huge sigh of relief to be back in a country I understand, at least on the micro-level of the daily-ness of getting things done. The water guy comes like clockwork on Thursdays at 2PM, the tortilla lady delivers on Saturday mornings, my neighborhood tianguis--just a couple of blocks away--are on Tuesdays and Fridays, and for ten pesos, the helper guy takes my Costco cart to the car and packs everything neatly into the trunk. I'm blessed to live in a small apartment building where all of us are like family to one another, where the portera and her daughter will unpack the car and bring my Costco purchases up to my apartment for me, where the son of the woman who owns the outlet store a block from me will bring the big bag of Costco cat and dog foods to my apartment, and where my good-neighbor friends say, "If you need anything, just let me know,"...and they mean it. I've been sick lately, my wife is in New York attending to her dying father, and my across-the-hall neighbor walks the dogs twice a day and checks to make sure I haven't expired in the night.

Primeramente Dios (God willing), I see no reason to contemplate a move to the United States. "Back home" for me is right here where I belong.

[JRPJR]

Thanks to almost everyone. Great thought provoking posts!

[Shira]

My daughter lives in Florida. Three months ago she moved into a house she had just bought. She has yet to meet any of her neighbors. I couldn't even begin to live like that after living twelve years in warm, welcoming Mexico.

[Alegria]

There's a fun book on this by Bill Bryson -- "I'm a Stranger Here Myself: Notes on Returning to America After 20 Years Away."

He writes about moving himself and his family back to a very much changed America after living in Britain for two decades.

[JayBearII]

I agree with the above but just want to observe that I have seen kids screaming in WalMart for toys their parents don't want to buy, so the trend is moving south, augmented by TV commercials no doubt.

As to climate and cities, if you compare Tucson and Hermosillo, they are a lot alike. Lots of air conditioned inside living in both places. Also, I think the climate and how much money you have has a lot to do with how you live.

That being said, I love it here and do not want to go back if I don't have to go.

[Guest bigd]

As a friend recently said, "The Excited States of Hysteria" -- does that sum it up, or what???

What does this sum up????????????

[ichbinsaege]

I'm one of the younger ones down here, and I cannot image going back to live in the US. I've been here not quite two years, and I love it here. When I talk to my friends back home, I can hear the stress in their voices, and see all the stress in their photos. They constantly comment on how relaxed and happy I look in my pictures. How they never remember me being that way when I lived up there. I could not go back to that way of life. The hustle and bustle and constant stress over how I'm going to afford to go to the grocery store, how I'm going to pay rent even though I'm working 3-4 part time jobs because I can't find anything full time that pays enough.

I'm going back for the first time in two years this fall to visit and I'm sure I'll feel a bit of culture shock just on my short visit.

[jrm30655]

I don't think I could drive back in the US anymore. Been here 4.5 years and I yield for dogs, cats, kids, horses etc. I slow down and let people in and expect the same. Wthin a day, I'd either pull out and get hit or slow down to let somone in and get rearended.

[Mainecoons]

Every time I go up there I have culture shock over the extreme isolation of residential areas and the total slavery to the car. I just walked over three blocks and got a superb haircut, everyone I passed exchanged "buenas tardes" with me, of course it is another beautiful day.

Driving up there is maddening, there is an untimed traffic light on every corner and Americans can't seem to grasp the simple concept of "slower traffic keep right."

The food is far healthier here too.

I would hate like heck to have to live up there full time. I can handle it in small doses, that's about it.

P.S. Guys, Sra. Pati just above Constitucion on the east side of Galeana does great hair styling, layer cut, for guys. Speaks very good English and graciously allows one to practice their fledgling Spanish as well. 766-1505 for appointments.

[Krogl309]

I wasn't in Mexico for long (eight months) and left to deal with family stuff in June. I'll be away for a year and cannot wait to get home. Mexico is my home now ...... people have so little yet smile so much. Back in Canada just isn't where my head is at.

[JKL]

I've been a member a long time, but declined to participate much because lots of folks got shot down. I've noticed more warmth and patience now so here goes. Been here full time 5 years, after spending 4 years splitting my time between beach in Texas for winter and coming to Ajijic for the absolutely wonderful summers! My husband I began counting the time before we could return to Ajijic from the beach and decided to make it our permanent home.

We just returned from an extended stay in Texas ( 2 1/2 months ) to visit family and friends. After we were there 2 weeks I began counting the time until we could return to Ajijic. Enjoyed seeing friends and family but we literally wanted to kiss the ground here when we returned. I agree with everyone - no other place like this and they'll have to drag me kicking and screaming to ever leave my Ajijic!

[manny]

phxfunguy, you dont see obese mexicans? where do you go? (locally). i must be missing something. the stats are exactly alike for both countries.

[phxfunguy]

phxfunguy, you dont see obese mexicans? where do you go? (locally). i must be missing something. the stats are exactly alike for both countries.

People seem to take issue with that one observation I made and maybe I should clairfy myself a bit. Of course obesity exists in all cultures. I'm thinking of a different range of obesity, not anyone with a BMI of just a bit over 28 which is the medical definition of obesity. Yes, I see chubby and overweight people here from a combination of genetic susceptibility particularly with native genes and eating high carbo high fat diets. What I was referring to when I go to Phoenix and go out shopping to places like Costco, Sam's, Walmart, or Target are the more obvious numbers of morbidly obese people, the ones who have to use motorized carts or assistive devices to get around. This is the combination of genetic predisposition and the access to huge quantities of high sugar, moderately simple carbs and fat in the diet and the relative "wealth" that we NOB have to be able to afford to buy all of this stuff, very often in huge quantities. It's in the house and right at your reach all the time, so it gets consumed. In all of my trips to Guad to the bulk buy stores here, I've actually only counted three such morbidly overweight folks in 2 years. I'm not trying to deny the claims that others make, it's just my experience so far and when I go back North, I'm struck with the difference.

[manny]

all i see here are the big tanks, men women, children. i think poverty & obesity go hand & hand. but also lower, middle class too. my feeling is if you go to lower end places like walmarts, the big mamas are there. & thats all over the continent. same fast food. there arent too many big people @ andares mall. slim & fit in general means higher education & income. i dont know why, as most people DO have choices. i saw 2 young very fat mexican mothers buying smoothies, when they can get a plain yogart & bannana. prices are the same. as for people on motor carts, theres no way i would look@ that. i read about that, but we are off topic.

[jrm30655]

I think the recent drug violence caused some serious reflections but few left.

I have friends here (MX and Gringo), the weather is great and my Spanish is at the point where I can order breakfast and find a bathroom. Why move?