non-owner driving car?

[Torontonian]

Intercasa wrote (awhile ago)

There are 2 issues, one is customs (yes they may drive your car when you are in it) and the bigger issue is insurance coverage which may be a larger problem if you are in an accident as they may take the driver to jail and not pay if your policy doesn't cover it.

Studio del Sol wrote (in part)

This is what I learned from Jorge Pinedo a government official in Guanajato.

But is very important that you remember, that the car is yours, and it is not allowed to be driven by somebody else, specially a Mexican.

The permit that customs gave you is only for you.

+++++++

My friend is adamant that someone else can drive his car - but he is only looking at what the insurance says.

Question:

How do we get something from customs that will allow someone else to drive the car? Intercasa, I understand from your comment that a person "may" drive it. Government might want to know that the car has not been stolen, might want something to show that the person driving has the owner's permission?? My friend, the car owner, is NOB for half the year and he wants me, a non-driver, to be able to have use of the car - with a friend driving - while he is gone. eg, Can a friend drive the car to pick up the owner at the airport?

Many thanks.

Linda

[Intercasa]

Law says another foreigner may drive you car. Best think to have is a signed letter from owner / importer with a copy of their ID, usually FM3.

The below assumes a foreign plated car with the owner / importer having an FM2 or FM3.

Also the law explicitly states who may drive their vehicle.

The Federal Law of Customs at Article 106 states:

ARTICULO 106. Se entiende por régimen de importación temporal, la entrada al país de mercancías

para permanecer en él por tiempo limitado y con una finalidad específica, siempre que retornen al

extranjero en el mismo estado, por los siguientes plazos:

lV. Por el plazo que dure su calidad migratoria, incluyendo sus prórrogas, en los siguientes casos:

a) Las de vehículos propiedad de extranjeros que se internen al país con calidad de inmigrantes rentistas o de no inmigrantes, excepto tratándose de refugiados y asilados políticos, siempre que se trate de un solo vehículo. Los vehículos que importen turistas y visitantes locales, incluso que no sean de su

propiedad y se trate de un solo vehículo. Los vehículos podrán ser conducidos en territorio nacional por el importador, su cónyuge, sus ascendientes, descendientes o hermanos, aun cuando éstos no sean

extranjeros, por un extranjero que tenga alguna de las calidades migratorias a que se refiere este inciso, o por un nacional, siempre que en este último caso, viaje a bordo del mismo cualquiera de las personas autorizadas para conducir el vehículo y podrán efectuar entradas y salidas múltiples.

ARTICLE 106. It is understood regarding the temporary importation regimen that the entry into the country of goods to remain for a limited time with a specific time to be returned outside the country in the same condition will be for the following terms:

IV. For the duration of their immigration status, including extensions, in the following cases:

a) The vehicles that are the property of foreigners admitted into the country with the immigration status of immigrant rentistas (those not working and of independent means) or of non immigrants except those who are refugees and those with political asylum as long as they only have one vehicle. The vehicles that tourists and local visitors import, include those that aren’t their property as long as it is only one vehicle. (Basically one vehicle per person). The vehicles can be driven in Mexico by the importer, their spouse, their parents, grandparents, brothers or sisters, children, grandchildren or by a foreigner who has one of the same immigration statuses as mentioned in this section or by a Mexican national only when one of the prior mentioned person is in the vehicle with them. They are free to enter and exit Mexico.

The full text of the Mexican Federal Customs Law can be found here:

http://www.diputados.gob.mx/LeyesBiblio/pdf/12.pdf

[jkgourmet]

So, when we came to ajijic on a tourist visa and drove US plated vehicle owned by a non-relative who has lived here for 10+ years, we were NOT legally driving their car? (we only drove in lakeside)

[RVGRINGO]

Deleted.

[howardF]

The Mexican laws regarding who can drive a foreign plated car are clear, but the insurance rules may not be. My agent told me that anyone that I give permission to would be covered whether or not they were named on the policy, however adding a driver as a named insured doesn't make them legal to drive your car.

[jkgourmet]

The Mexican laws regarding who can drive a foreign plated car are clear, but the insurance rules may not be. My agent told me that anyone that I give permission to would be covered whether or not they were named on the policy, however adding a driver as a named insured doesn't make them legal to drive your car.

So - the vehicle MAY have been insured by the insurance company, but regardless, we were not legally allowed to drive that car and the car or husband could have been impounded regardless of the insurance coverage, correct?

[Intercasa]

The rules seem as clear as mud to some. I believe the legislative intent was to not have Mexicans driving gringo cars to protect the Mexican Auto Industry.

So I'm sick of work and studying so I'll expand here to explain things, well how I researched it and interpret things:

Ok, the phrase at issue is:

"The vehicles can be driven in Mexico by the importer, their spouse, their parents, grandparents, brothers or sisters, children, grandchildren or by a foreigner who has one of the same immigration statuses as mentioned in this section..."

Or in Spanish:

"Los vehículos podrán ser conducidos en territorio nacional por el importador, su cónyuge, sus ascendientes, descendientes o hermanos, aun cuando éstos no sean extranjeros, por un extranjero que tenga alguna de las calidades migratorias a que se refiere este inciso..."

Ok, so now we must look to the law and see what the law defines as "calidades migratorias"

If we go to the General Population Law (Ley General de Poblacion) section 41 and 42 it is defined:

Artículo 41.- Los extranjeros podrán internarse legalmente en el país de acuerdo con las siguientes

calidades:

a ).- No Inmigrante,

B ).- Inmigrante.

Artículo 42.- No Inmigrante es el extranjero que con permiso de la Secretaría de Gobernación se

interna en el país temporalmente, dentro de alguna de las siguientes características:

I.- TURISTA.- Con fines de recreo o salud, para actividades artísticas, culturales o deportivas, no

remuneradas ni lucrativas, con temporalidad máxima de seis meses improrrogables.

II.- TRANSMIGRANTE.- En tránsito hacia otro país y que podrá permanecer en territorio nacional

hasta por treinta días.

III.- VISITANTE.- Para dedicarse al ejercicio de alguna actividad lucrativa o no, siempre que sea lícita

y honesta, con autorización para permanecer en el país hasta por un año.

So Section 41 gives both no inmigrante (FM3) and inmigrante (FM2) which are also mentioned in the customs law (calidad de inmigrantes rentistas o de no inmigrantes).

As you see above, the immigration type of no inmigrantes (FM3) also includes tourists (FMT, now FMM holders). All you FM3 retirees out there are visitante rentistas.

If you have a permission letter signed it should be ok as long as you are not a working FM2 holder and are only a FM2 holding retiree.

My prior translation done a while ago was a little lacking.

[bournemouth]

The rules seem as clear as mud to some. I believe the legislative intent was to not have Mexicans driving gringo cars to protect the Mexican Auto Industry.

So I'm sick of work and studying so I'll expand here to explain things, well how I researched it and interpret things:

Ok, the phrase at issue is:

"The vehicles can be driven in Mexico by the importer, their spouse, their parents, grandparents, brothers or sisters, children, grandchildren or by a foreigner who has one of the same immigration statuses as mentioned in this section..."

Or in Spanish:

"Los vehículos podrán ser conducidos en territorio nacional por el importador, su cónyuge, sus ascendientes, descendientes o hermanos, aun cuando éstos no sean extranjeros, por un extranjero que tenga alguna de las calidades migratorias a que se refiere este inciso..."

Ok, so now we must look to the law and see what the law defines as "calidades migratorias"

If we go to the General Population Law (Ley General de Poblacion) section 41 and 42 it is defined:

Artículo 41.- Los extranjeros podrán internarse legalmente en el país de acuerdo con las siguientes

calidades:

a ).- No Inmigrante,

B ).- Inmigrante.

Artículo 42.- No Inmigrante es el extranjero que con permiso de la Secretaría de Gobernación se

interna en el país temporalmente, dentro de alguna de las siguientes características:

I.- TURISTA.- Con fines de recreo o salud, para actividades artísticas, culturales o deportivas, no

remuneradas ni lucrativas, con temporalidad máxima de seis meses improrrogables.

II.- TRANSMIGRANTE.- En tránsito hacia otro país y que podrá permanecer en territorio nacional

hasta por treinta días.

III.- VISITANTE.- Para dedicarse al ejercicio de alguna actividad lucrativa o no, siempre que sea lícita

y honesta, con autorización para permanecer en el país hasta por un año.

So Section 41 gives both no inmigrante (FM3) and inmigrante (FM2) which are also mentioned in the customs law (calidad de inmigrantes rentistas o de no inmigrantes).

As you see above, the immigration type of no inmigrantes (FM3) also includes tourists (FMT, now FMM holders). All you FM3 retirees out there are visitante rentistas.

If you have a permission letter signed it should be ok as long as you are not a working FM2 holder and are only a FM2 holding retiree.

My prior translation done a while ago was a little lacking.

Thanks for that explanation Spencer - let us hope the authorities see it the same way!

[Intercasa]

I'll amend my traffic guide and include the corresponding sections from the other law and it should be up before next week. I may also put a section on getting your car out of impound.

[jkgourmet]

The rules seem as clear as mud to some. I believe the legislative intent was to not have Mexicans driving gringo cars to protect the Mexican Auto Industry.

Spencer, I'm neither a lawyer nor do I understand Spanish. In fact, before my hair went gray, I was a blonde - and I feel a bit thick right now. Please forgive me and let me ask again:

So, when we came to ajijic on a tourist visa and drove US plated vehicle owned by a non-relative who has lived here for 10+ years, we were NOT legally driving their car? (we only drove in lakeside)

(I'm trying to understand this because we do home exchanges down here, and this exact scenario is what usually occurs with car exchanges. I believe if the vehicle is Mexican plated, the answer is simple: We cannot drive it with our US licenses and tourist visa. But what about the US plated vehicles?)

Thanks, Spencer. Your generosity with your knowledge and time are invaluable around here. I wish I had a much younger, gorgeous and smart daughter to introduce you to.

[cosalamx]

Spencer, I'm neither a lawyer nor do I understand Spanish. In fact, before my hair went gray, I was a blonde - and I feel a bit thick right now. Please forgive me and let me ask again:

So, when we came to ajijic on a tourist visa and drove US plated vehicle owned by a non-relative who has lived here for 10+ years, we were NOT legally driving their car? (we only drove in lakeside)

(I'm trying to understand this because we do home exchanges down here, and this exact scenario is what usually occurs with car exchanges. I believe if the vehicle is Mexican plated, the answer is simple: We cannot drive it with our US licenses and tourist visa. But what about the US plated vehicles?)

Thanks, Spencer. Your generosity with your knowledge and time are invaluable around here. I wish I had a much younger, gorgeous and smart daughter to introduce you to.

What I have read and been told is that a foreigner who could legally temporarily import and drive their own foreign plated car in Mexico, can drive someone else's foreign plated car which is legally in Mexico. If a foreigner has a status that would not allow them to have a foreign-plated car in Mexico, then they cannot drive someone else's foreign plated car. Any foreigner who has a valid drivers license from, say Canada and the USA, and perhaps other countries, can drive a Mexican plated car, and the insurance is valid.

The insurance may not allow the car to be rented, which might include a car that is part of a house rental, since there is money going to the car owner for the use of the vehicle. So, in those situations, it would be a good idea to ask the insurer. A letter of consent is a good idea.

[Intercasa]

Jean, you were legally driving the car as you, even with a tourist visa, were a no inmigrante, one of the classes of people who are able to drive a foreign plated vehicle.

This is why I wrote so much to show that tourists (who like FM3 holders ARE no inmigrantes) can drive foreign plated cars of others legally

If you are stopped you should have a signed letter of authorization with a copy of the signers ID. Also if the sticker has expired it would be a good idea to have a copy of the importer's FM2 or FM3 so that it can be shown that the car is still legally in the country.

[RVGRINGO]

After reading Intercasa's posts and the law in both Spanish and the translation, It seems that he is correct; a person on an FMM permit can drive the foreign plated car of another expat with similar immigration status. I had thought, for years, that it required something more than the tourist permit. I was evidently wrong.

[Torontonian]

Thank you all for your input.

Intercasa, you are such an asset to this board.

So my friend who has the US plated car and the FM3 (as it was called when he got it) cannot let someone on an FMM drive the car, only someone who has the same document as he does, the FM3 or no immigrante credencial.

That's clear. But very disappointing to read.

[Intercasa]

I wasn't sure either until I delved into the law and definitions. I've updated my traffic guide and will be uploading the new addition shortly with other minor additions.

Thanks posters, it is all of you that make me get off my duff and look things up and amend my traffic guide.

New Driving Guide is now up, did change parts (clarify) who can drive a foreign plated car, also added requirements for driver license and how to get your car out of impound.

http://www.intercasafs.com/Driving.pdf

[jkgourmet]

Spencer said: Jean, you were legally driving the car as you, even with a tourist visa, were a no inmigrante, one of the classes of people who are able to drive a foreign plated vehicle.

Tonontonian said: So my friend who has the US plated car and the FM3 (as it was called when he got it) cannot let someone on an FMM drive the car, only someone who has the same document as he does, the FM3 or no immigrante credencial.

If a tourist visa = FMM = no inmigrante, then how can BOTH these statements be true?

[Intercasa]

Ok, as applies only to WHO can drive a foreign plated car:

All Tourists on an FMM and all FM3 holders and ONLY rentista FM2 holders (basically same people who are able to import).

Torontonian misunderstood.

[howardF]

Spencer said: Jean, you were legally driving the car as you, even with a tourist visa, were a no inmigrante, one of the classes of people who are able to drive a foreign plated vehicle.

Tonontonian said: So my friend who has the US plated car and the FM3 (as it was called when he got it) cannot let someone on an FMM drive the car, only someone who has the same document as he does, the FM3 or no immigrante credencial.

If a tourist visa = FMM = no inmigrante, then how can BOTH these statements be true?

I believe that Spencer's statement is true, but Torontonian's is not. Cosalamx's statement above is also correct and seems to be the most clear of all. If you're allowed to temporarily import a car, then you're allowed to drive someone else's imported car if you have their written permission. Also, anyone with a valid license from wherever can drive a Mexican plated car, also with the permission of the owner. Insurance is a separate, but related issue.

[Torontonian]

Sorry everyone.

But thanks to those who corrected me.

Stressing here... mover coming in two days...other things on my mind??

[jkgourmet]

Sorry everyone.

But thanks to those who corrected me.

Stressing here... mover coming in two days...other things on my mind??

Thanks for all the help for this thick-headed, uninformed gringo.

And Torontonian, have you forgotten that stressing is illegal in Mexico?