Internet question

[protekme]

Hi every one,

With Telmex 5mg is there a limit of dowlnloading as far as speed and quantity?

[giltner68]

Two things, I had 5mb Telmex until a year ago and it was never more than 1.8mb. Recently I reconnected with 3mb and it seems to be running roughly at 3mb, so maybe the 5 would actually be 5 depending on where you are. To your specific question, no limit - YET - and I stress that because with more and more people determined to stream etc that is bringing us all down and I'd bet it won't be long before Telmex starts putting limits and charging for bandwidth, almost everyone NOB seems to be, why not here?

[doberwoman]

no, I have the 5mg acct. and I have a person at home that is aaaaallll day downloading movies....and it is ok....no extra charges and internet is running "normal" sometimes we have several minutes without it, but in Riberas is a normal thing, according with Telmex technicians....

[protekme]

Thank you both very much for the information.

It was for a friend who wants to move to Mexico to Puerto Angel down the coast. He is very concerned as he needs a good, fast and reliable internet connection for his work and pleasure.

I sent him your answers. That's exactly what he wanted to know. But I'm afraid it might be a different story in Puerto Angel as there is not a large population, and their service might not be the same as here. They might be years behind us.

[ComputerGuy]

We may end up with caps on our usage, but not yet. The problem here is not that "people are determined to stream". We are not at fault. The online services are pushing this across the board. Netflix is just one small example. ISPs should be gearing up for this, not being greedy. The federal U.S. gov't is continually authoring bills to prevent the ISPs from being too greedy in this area.

Look, even Adobe is now forcing buyers of their new releases of the PhotoShop family of software to subscribe, and stream their use of the programs. (Personally, I think this is ludicrous and will fail at this point). You can no long buy new releases, only rent them. And "the cloud" is what they would all like us to use... and that just adds more and more bandwidth usage, which is where the Internet is headed.

People like my son, who play video games on their PC, are now forced to download huge updates as soon as they install their disks... and be connected continuously while playing, even when not playing with others online. Generally, this is an anti-theft and technical support concept, but the reason is irrelevant: it adds massive amounts of bandwidth to a service. And I feel sorry for the guys who just want to play a game and don't have high-speed Internet: they're stuck.

[protekme]

Okay, now that you brought up Adobe, ComputerGuy. I have another question.

In the last two weeks, Adobe Flash Player 11.8.800.94 bugs me to download an update. I turn them down because it seems that they also force McAfee on us. I never play music and don't need Adobe Player. Should I delete it from my system for them not to bother me or might I need it to view what friends send me sometimes?

Thanks.

[giltner68]

If you really really want an explanation from my ISP, I'll publish it, it ain't pretty and all the "cloud" junk (Adobe being one) etc. are killing us because MX is not up to par and will not be for some time - if ever, so the result will be that we'll be on our knees rather soon I'd bet. Now, it's a technical description and there are many facets, but I can assure you that if you are heavily involved in Netflix, cloud anything, streaming anything etc. you are impacting ALL of us. And just because "netflx" is pushing it doesn't mean you should use it, have a bit of respect, the internet is much like the carretera, we all have to use it and we all have to learn to share space.

As to some who currently may be abusing the "privilege" of streaming, yes, it may be ok today if you happen to be the only guy on a server at Telmex etc, but when 5, 10 or 50 more like you end up on the same server and try to do the same thing you won't like the results and frankly, if I were Carlos Slim I'd look down from ahigh and say "wow, dumb gringos, they want this, let them pay" and I'd tag them all just like the ISP's NOB are doing now.

[More Liana]

Okay, now that you brought up Adobe, ComputerGuy. I have another question.

In the last two weeks, Adobe Flash Player 11.8.800.94 bugs me to download an update. I turn them down because it seems that they also force McAfee on us. I never play music and don't need Adobe Player. Should I delete it from my system for them not to bother me or might I need it to view what friends send me sometimes?

Thanks.

When you open the installation window, Adobe Flash Player gives you the option to install McAfee--in other words, you'll see the little checkmark to add it. If you click on that checkmark, it will go away--and you get Adobe Flash Player without McAfee.

[protekme]

Giltner--If you were talking to me, I did not understand much. It's way above me. Netflix, cloud anything, streaming anything??? I guess you were not because I was only asking about Adobe Player. I'm a real moron in that field (only). :D

More Liana--Thanks for telling me how not to download McAfee. I would also like to know if it's important to have Adobe Flash Player or could I take it away from my system.

But I would keep it If I need it to look at things friends send me. Then I guess it would be necessary to download updates.

Sorry to be so thick, but it's too complicated for me. I can manage certain things but I don't know why they are there.

[giltner68]

A bit more; yesterday I was sitting out on the deck enjoying the breeze and clouds and thought more about my comment on the Carretera and realized it was a perfect analogy. Most folks don't know much about how the Internet works (and I'm certainly no expert). But, we've all driven the Carretera in our vehicles (let's call them packets), it's the only way to or from here, right? So, it's a perfect parallel to the Internet which is our only path to/from the world beyond our PC's. The Internet works on digital "packets" which are bits of information which everything we receive, or send, is broken into. And at the source, packets can travel through different paths to the end recipient (us, or them) and are rejoined to become the image or text of what was sent. Think of anything you upload/download as a puzzle, many pieces and they originate in NYC, some pieces may be sent to Hoboken and then on to us here in MX (it's the fastest way at that moment) and other pieces go to Denver, Chicago, LA, but all eventually get here where we assemble the puzzle to see the picture. Internet data is like that only quantum times more complex, but the same principle.

Well, like the Internet, the Carretera works pretty good most of the time, a few backups (slow speed packets) now and then, but mostly ok. People are courteous about slowing or stopping even to blink their lights to signal someone oncoming to turn left in front of them to show courtesy and to alleviate traffic backing up behind that vehicle.

So, now let's consider a totally different scenario, there is a disaster in Ajijic, some major event (you speculate) that requires a mandatory evacuation of EVERYONE from Ajijic, and maybe even adjacent villages - where do we go? - well it's either E or W on the Carretera because that is the only path to/from our little enclave - much like the Internet, only one incoming/outgoing path through our ISP (Telmex, Telecable, LagunaNet, Iuseacell etc).

So, you're in, let's say Mirasol, or Chula Vista, or Riberas and you desperately NEED/WANT to get on the Carretera and drive 40mph like you normally do - but now, there is nothing but solid vehicles (packets) in your way - what do you do - because absolutely NO ONE IS FLASHING THEIR LIGHTS? The "bandwidth" of the carretera is suddenly maxed out with no options but to eventually join the slow moving stream and bump along.

Now, if there were two, or three parallel roads (more bandwidth) out, that would be great - right? - but, for the Internet there isn't until Telmex/Telecable etc. put in more servers which means they are asking (paying) for more bandwidth from the next levels up and ultimately the "backbones" of the internet. So, guess what? - they aren't going to increase that "bandwidth" until they're sure they can make money on it and so who is the "cash cow" in this whole scenario?

[ComputerGuy]

Okay, now that you brought up Adobe, ComputerGuy. I have another question.

In the last two weeks, Adobe Flash Player 11.8.800.94 bugs me to download an update. I turn them down because it seems that they also force McAfee on us. I never play music and don't need Adobe Player. Should I delete it from my system for them not to bother me or might I need it to view what friends send me sometimes?

Thanks.

Flash and Java are responsible for most of the video, animation, and sounds you see when you're on the Web. Adobe is so open to security attacks, which try to enter your computer via their software (esp. Flash), that they release updates almost every week. Most of the time, these updates are unimportant to us as users. I allow them only because some websites require that your PC has the very latest version, or their site won't work properly. And some of the updates play havoc with your operating system, although one never knows when or if this will happen (same with Windows updates) I can recommend saying "No" until you get a message saying you "have to have this update to get this site to work", and then allowing it.

[ComputerGuy]

Giltner, all I can say is you're wrong; we've had this discussion before; maybe we can agree to disagree. All I can tell anyone reading this is (in layman's terms) that there are thousands and thousands of people online streaming, downloading, and viewing, on top of their email usage, and they are not affected in the way you describe. If your concept was true, none of us would ever have enough bandwidth to do anything. It just doesn't work that way.

And the Internet is not a privilege, it's a right.

[giltner68]

Yes, we had this discussion, you were wrong then and you're doubling down on your errors now. As I said, I'll be glad to publish the iSP's answers to my questions. And, the Internet is NOT a right in any sense of the word, as Paul Harvey used to say "your rights end where my nose begins" and in this case where my PC begins. You purchase a privilege from an ISP and you are at their mercy, I'm sitting here at the moment looking at a "no connect" light on my Telecable modem, if I had a "right" it would always be on - it isn't.

[ComputerGuy]

To giltner, ISPs will say almost anything to get you happy. My son works for Bell Canada as a senior network/Internet support tech, and disputes each and every thing you say.

To the original poster, you're right, the service in Puerto Angel could/probably would be quite different from here. But if TelMex is available, at this point, they have no caps on service.

[giltner68]

The discussion with the ISP spans 4 email sessions, I can post all, but it gets rather deep into the weeds of "nodes" etc. and so I've selected a small sample of the questions/answers with the final reply by the ISP (who are doing this for a living I might point out).

My Question: So, if I said "too many customers, or too many high bandwidth users on the same node can bog it down and will impact me" is that a correct statement?

ISP Answer: Damn freakin' rights it is!!!!

My Question: I know there are many many things that can and do impact us, but the main argument here is that all the streaming is impacting all of us on Telmex and probably even Telecable.

ISP Answer: and I concur…
And who is this dude INSISTING the heavier use of the typical internet user is NOT AFFECTING the overall ISP or the nodes??? Does HE know the specs of the company's system?? Does he know what system they are using and if the servers/system is more than able to handle peak use hours with the new trend of streaming all media??? humph!

ISP Answer: Just a tiny recap …

Your ISP is the WHOLE SYSTEM including their bank of server systems that handle all communications.

Then they have HUGE LINES that spider out from the physical plant. These lines go to "nodes"… which act like "hubs" that then send out smaller lines to each home. (actually, there could be many 'levels' of nodes, depending on the system.) A typical end-user node has only the radius of under 4 kms. If you are not located near one of their nodes, you cannot get internet service from them.

Now… too many users on one node will slow up the speeds for all the users on that node… since all must 'share' that node's limits…

A node could have a 1000 mbps cap, but if there's 1000 peeps on one node, then you all are only capable of 1 mbps each (up AND down)… though you may have been promised 5 or 10. they never 'think' that ALL will USE that much all at the same time, and if so, you (and everyone else on the single node) are slowed down.

Now… don't take those numbers at value… that's only an example to show you what I was meaning. The node's restrictions don't necessarily reflect the ISP's restrictions…

Hope that helps.

[ComputerGuy]

Two things here: One, I never said that usage does not affect it. You keep insisting I said that, and I never have. I said not in the way you describe, and I stand by that, or we would have no speed at all. Second, you are both incorrectly assuming that TelMex is under-powered in terms of overall server and node support. They are not. Again, using your explanation, we would have no good service at all. I've lived in five different places here, starting with dialup and now on the 5Mbit service, and to wrap this up, I'll tell you that personally I never suffer from what you are describing, and neither do the majority of my customers. So if you were actually correct, then I would have experienced it somewhere in those five houses, and I have not.

So I don't care what your guy said: he doesn't know this system, he's not being completely straight with you, and from anecdotal experience with thousands of people over the last nine years, there is no proof of it. I know exactly how the system works, and I know the specs, and I know the conjecture, and I know the actualities. Yes, heavy or massive use is going to definitely cause bandwidth squeezes, at different places and different times, but not at all in the way your are stating, or I wouldn't even be able to post this now.

[giltner68]

I believe we're both circling the truth, but from different directions and I'll point to your one statement as a conclusion we agree on "Yes, heavy or massive use is going to definitely cause bandwidth squeezes, at different places and different times"

Now, as to the rest "but not at all in the way your are stating, or I wouldn't even be able to post this now" that is an argument in the weeds and only diffuses the real issue and that is what we both seem to agree on. The small bursts of these posts is negligible compared to download videos or streaming where a more or less constant stream is required. Often when DSL etc. is down I've used dialup to post here as do others, so posting here has no relevance to the larger discussion. But, you believe as you will and we'll all see what comes of it in the future.

The bandwidth concern of the board mentioned earlier is at the server end, not here locally.

[ComputerGuy]

It's all packets, and if there are too many packets, then my small bursts would have to wait, if what you are saying is correct, and I would see very painfully slow bandwidth.

"The bandwidth concern of the board mentioned earlier is at the server end, not here locally." So you're saying my upload speed ("here, locally") is not affected by the ISPs service? So that anything I send is completely independent? After you just said "the small bursts of these posts is negligible." Sorry, you've lost me.

[RVGRINGO]

These two should meet for coffee and save bandwidth for the rest of us.

[ComputerGuy]

LOL.

[giltner68]

Tell you what, let me ask two simple final questions and we'll put the cork in the bottle and give everyone a break and I'll let your answers stand on their own merit. (please, no long esoteric ramblings into the weeds, a simple yes or no will do well)

A. If I download (example) Netflix 24 hours a day will my speed remain constant?

B. If everyone in Riberas suddenly decides to download Netflix 24 hours a day will my speed remain constant?

[ComputerGuy]

No, because of Netflix variations, plus your own specific bandwidth is affected by what you download.

Yes, most likely, except in those cases where a user is at the "end of the line".

[Confused]

So, for the question that is off topic a little bit. Computer experts.

If I am paying for in my Telmex package 5 mps and getting 1.7 what do I do.

1. Go to Telmex and complain.

2. Go to Telmex and pay for a slower package which is 3 mps and they can't even provide that.

3. Just forget it because it is just frustrating, and getting pissed off when the computer locks up is not good for my nerves.

4. All of the above

[RVGRINGO]

#2 is your best option, since you are paying for UP TO 5mb/s and you are getting everything they can provide to your location, up to that amount. We pay for up to 1 mb/s and usually get more. It simply depends upon your location, more than your package.

[ComputerGuy]

I would recommend callng TelMex support in Mexico City and going through the test options. They can determine what the problem is, and if they cannot do anything from the office, will send a technician to your street/home. At some point, they may tell you that's the best you can get there, in which case question why they allowed you to sign up for something you cannot get. I've been through this wringer many times, and if it doesn't work, call back and get someone else. They have their lazy phone support, just like their good phone support.

You can also try going to the highest level. If you miraculously get better than 5, you can call them, tell them "the great news", and get your rate dropped while you insist that they maintain your speed. I've done this a number of times for others.

There are only a very, very few (like, maybe three) people that I've sat through with this who have been told in the end that their speed is "the best you can get in that area".