Leaving a car in Mexico

[Windstar4]

Currently renting in Lakeside with just tourist visas. We would like to fly back north for the summer. Are we allowed to leave our car in storage here.

If we had FM3 status would we be allowed???

[More Liana]

Currently renting in Lakeside with just tourist visas. We would like to fly back north for the summer. Are we allowed to leave our car in storage here.

If we had FM3 status would we be allowed???

Question #1: No.

Question #2: Yes.

[Sylvie]

How would anyone know if you leave it where you live in MX? Do they confiscate the vehicle? Wondering, cuz an emergency trip could come up...

[Windstar4]

How would anyone know if you leave it where you live in MX? Do they confiscate the vehicle? Wondering, cuz an emergency trip could come up...

Yes Sylvie

I wondered that myself - unless their computer would pick it up at the airport

[howardF]

Yes Sylvie

I wondered that myself - unless their computer would pick it up at the airport

Sadly, the Mexican government's computer systems are hardly that sophisticated, especially among the various departments and agencies. It's just plain illegal even though you may be able to get away with it.

[Intercasa]

You could probably get away with it provided 1) nothing happened to your car in your absence and that 2) you returned to the border or got an FM3 or FM2 prior to the expiration date on the import sticker.

[More Liana]

The point is that you will have an FMM (what used to be the tourist card) that is NOT a multiple entry permit--it's a one-entry permit for you, and when you are in Mexico using the FMM, your car sticker is a one-entry/one-exit permit as well. You are required to take the car with you when you leave Mexico and obtaining a new FMM when you return does not make your vehicle legal. It continues to be illegal. I'm sure you wouldn't want to run the risk of driving an illegal vehicle in Mexico when you do return. If you apply for and receive an FM-3 or an FM-2 when you return, your vehicle will STILL not be legal--because the FMM that you exchange for the rentista non-inmigrante visa (FM-3 or FM-2) will not cover the old vehicle sticker.

The problem is not that 'someone will find out' that you have left your vehicle here while you fly out temporarily. The problem is what could happen if, upon your return, you were involved in an accident in the illegal vehicle. Believe me, your vehicle would be illegal, confiscated, and you would never get it back. There could also be hefty fines involved. Why take that chance?

[TWolf]

I'm wondering what would happen if your car was stolen while you were in Mexico, and you didn't get it back prior to leaving. What happens then?

Then the second question is, what happens if you blow an engine and it can't be repaired cheaply enough to make worth repairing to bring back to the states. What happens then?

[Intercasa]

ML, I disagree with your hypothesis that there could be a problem if the vehicle was involved in an accident upon return. Upon return (assuming the date on the import sticker wasn't expired) the car would be legally in Mexico as long as the importer was legally in Mexico and they would be as they would have a new FMM. The illegality would be cured upon arrival back and you would have a legal person in Mexico and an imported car with a current sticker.

I believe this same hypothetical was covered in an Q&A with a government official in SMA as reported here on this board some time ago.

This isn't a spot you want to be in. Best to do it all legally and have no risk.

[Rolly]

Read more details here.

[cosalamx]

If you apply for and receive an FM-3 or an FM-2 when you return, your vehicle will STILL not be legal--because the FMM that you exchange for the rentista non-inmigrante visa (FM-3 or FM-2) will not cover the old vehicle sticker.

My understanding is that you can enter on a "tourist" visa (the former FMT) and get a car import permit, and then obtain whatever the new FM-3 visa is called, and your car permit is still valid, as long as you retain your visa. I know many people who have done just that, and have been told that there is no need to drive the car back to the border, just to get a new permit. I'm not sure whether a new "tourist" visa would qualify the old car permit, but since there seems to only be an FMM visa now, perhaps returning to Mexico and getting a new visa restores the legality of the car permit.

I'm wondering what would happen if your car was stolen while you were in Mexico, and you didn't get it back prior to leaving. What happens then?

Then the second question is, what happens if you blow an engine and it can't be repaired cheaply enough to make worth repairing to bring back to the states. What happens then?

I can tell you from bitter personal experience that if your foreign plated car is stolen, the Mexican government will be asking for import taxes that come close to the fair market value of the vehicle. Further, the insurance company will deny that it should pay those taxes, notwithstanding that they are a consequence of the theft, and the policy states that the insurer will pay the value of the vehicle and all consequential losses resulting from the theft.

If the car has a blown engine, it MIGHT be possible to haul it to an Aduana office and surrender the car to the government in exchange for a cancellation of the import permit. I've been told that can be done, but I have no personal experience. I know that the government will not accept that you voluntarily demolished a car in order to have the permit canceled, since that was an approach that my insurance company tried with the government, after the stolen car was recovered, and the insurer did not want to take it to the border.

[Intercasa]

FYI for all, here is a link to get permission to drive you illegal car out of Mexico. There is no cost and this way if you find yourself with an illegal car you can get permission to legally get it out.

http://www.aduanas.gob.mx/aduana_mexico/2008/vehiculos/141_10027.html

[TWolf]

I can see it's important that the car be in good driving condition, and older, if at all possible. That would at least mean lower tax payments if it's stolen, wrecked, or junk, due to engine failure.

That's an important issue, because it does mean that for shorter stays, it might be much wiser to rent a car down there when you really need one, and avoid any uncertainties surrounding the vehicle.

Thanks for the input. I'd never thought about driving to more distant areas in Mexico before, but had been considering it when we come down during the winter of 2011-12.

[lorilee]

I can see it's important that the car be in good driving condition, and older, if at all possible. That would at least mean lower tax payments if it's stolen, wrecked, or junk, due to engine failure.

That's an important issue, because it does mean that for shorter stays, it might be much wiser to rent a car down there when you really need one, and avoid any uncertainties surrounding the vehicle.

Thanks for the input. I'd never thought about driving to more distant areas in Mexico before, but had been considering it when we come down during the winter of 2011-12.

Just thought I'd comment on "rental cars". While the daily rate is inexpensive, the insurance cost will likely break you! We rented a car at the Guad airport - used it for 12 days and the insurance cost plus rental cost was $700 US!!!

[Studio del Sol]

ML, I disagree with your hypothesis that there could be a problem if the vehicle was involved in an accident upon return. Upon return (assuming the date on the import sticker wasn't expired) the car would be legally in Mexico as long as the importer was legally in Mexico and they would be as they would have a new FMM. The illegality would be cured upon arrival back and you would have a legal person in Mexico and an imported car with a current sticker.

I believe this same hypothetical was covered in an Q&A with a government official in SMA as reported here on this board some time ago.

This isn't a spot you want to be in. Best to do it all legally and have no risk.

This is what I learned from Jorge Pinedo a government official in Guanajato.

quote:

Regarding your questions,

1. Is it legal for me to drive from California, cross the border on an FMT in April, leave my auto at my little house at Lake Chapala, off the street in an enclosed area where it will not be driven when I am not there, and to come back in October by airplane on a new FMT (or FMM)?

Yes, It is legal for you to drive the car from California to Mexico with no problem.

As long as you are legal in Mexico, your car is also legal, even if your car permit is expired.

You can leave your car at your house and nobody will take it for import purposes.

But is very important that you remember, that the car is yours, and it is not allowed to be driven by somebody else, specially a Mexican.

The permit that customs gave you is only for you.

2. Will the car be at my casa legally or do I have to apply for an FM3?

If the car stays in Mexico, you do not have to apply for a new permit for it. Again, as long as you are legal in Mexico

But if you leave Mexico by car, then, you need to apply for a new car import permit.

I hope that I answered your questions.

But please feel free me to contact me in case that you have more doubts.

Best regards

Jorge

jpinedol@guanajuato.gob.mx

[More Liana]

Thanks for posting the reply that you received from Jorge Pinedo. His answer is very clear.

Nonetheless, as in most things relating to Mexico, the answer to this question is, "It depends." Sr. Pinedo is writing from the state of Guanajuato, where he believes he knows how the law is applied. Some posters here live in Guanajuato, others in Jalisco, still others in other Mexican states, and I live in Michoacán. Law, even federal law, is frequently applied differently from state to state, city to city, and town to town--even from one government official to another.

Here is a copy-and-paste excerpt of a report by Carol Schmidt from the February 2010 US Consul's town meeting in San Miguel de Allende. She quotes Ed Clancy, the US Consul's representative in San Miguel de Allende:

"...With an FMT (now FMM) you can come and go as often as you like, but each time you leave you give up your current FMT and come in on a new one. An FMT is for one visit only. If you have brought in a car on a temporary vehicle importation permit on that FMT, you must take your car out with you when you leave, and you may not be able to bring in your car on your second 180-day FMT in a year.

But it is also true that not all border offices have computer access to the Mexican data bank of all expat cars legally in the country at any one time, and you very likely will be able to do so, at least until every border has complete computer hookups to the data bases.

So having an FM3 is far better if you are going to be bringing a car in to Mexico for long term use. Once you have your FM3, even if you changed to an FM3 from an FMT while in Mexico, your car remains legally imported as long as you are legal. If you are one day late leaving on your FMT, you and your car are both now illegal and the car could be seized.

Even though many expats do so, you can't come in on one FMT with your car, leave by plane with your car staying in Mexico, and come in on another FMT later. Your car is not magically transferred to your new FMT, Clancy said.

(In the private meetings after the main session, the representative from the Guanajuato Secretary of Finance and Administration, Jorge Pinedo, disagreed. He said that as long as you are in Mexico legally, your car isa here legally. You can put it in a garage and not have it driven while you leave Mexico on your FMT and come back on a new FMT, and your car will be legal again. I told him that everything else I had read and everybody else I had talked to at any other agency had disagreed, but he insisted that your car will still be legal even if you come back on another FMT. I wouldn't assume that everyone who may stop you will have this opinion, but he did present that strong opinion to the people at the meeting.)..."

Read the rest of the report here: http://www.fallinginlovewithsanmiguel.com/gpage.html. Scroll down to the post dated February 25, 2010.

Just sayin'...

[cosalamx]

Thanks for posting the reply that you received from Jorge Pinedo. His answer is very clear.

Nonetheless, as in most things relating to Mexico, the answer to this question is, "It depends." Sr. Pinedo is writing from the state of Guanajuato, where he believes he knows how the law is applied. Some posters here live in Guanajuato, others in Jalisco, still others in other Mexican states, and I live in Michoacán. Law, even federal law, is frequently applied differently from state to state, city to city, and town to town--even from one government official to another.

Here is a copy-and-paste excerpt of a report by Carol Schmidt from the February 2010 US Consul's town meeting in San Miguel de Allende. She quotes Ed Clancy, the US Consul's representative in San Miguel de Allende:

"...With an FMT (now FMM) you can come and go as often as you like, but each time you leave you give up your current FMT and come in on a new one. An FMT is for one visit only. If you have brought in a car on a temporary vehicle importation permit on that FMT, you must take your car out with you when you leave, and you may not be able to bring in your car on your second 180-day FMT in a year.

But it is also true that not all border offices have computer access to the Mexican data bank of all expat cars legally in the country at any one time, and you very likely will be able to do so, at least until every border has complete computer hookups to the data bases.

So having an FM3 is far better if you are going to be bringing a car in to Mexico for long term use. Once you have your FM3, even if you changed to an FM3 from an FMT while in Mexico, your car remains legally imported as long as you are legal. If you are one day late leaving on your FMT, you and your car are both now illegal and the car could be seized.

Even though many expats do so, you can't come in on one FMT with your car, leave by plane with your car staying in Mexico, and come in on another FMT later. Your car is not magically transferred to your new FMT, Clancy said.

(In the private meetings after the main session, the representative from the Guanajuato Secretary of Finance and Administration, Jorge Pinedo, disagreed. He said that as long as you are in Mexico legally, your car isa here legally. You can put it in a garage and not have it driven while you leave Mexico on your FMT and come back on a new FMT, and your car will be legal again. I told him that everything else I had read and everybody else I had talked to at any other agency had disagreed, but he insisted that your car will still be legal even if you come back on another FMT. I wouldn't assume that everyone who may stop you will have this opinion, but he did present that strong opinion to the people at the meeting.)..."

Read the rest of the report here: http://www.fallinginlovewithsanmiguel.com/gpage.html. Scroll down to the post dated February 25, 2010.

Just sayin'...

The lesson is very clear: Don't ask an official of any foreign government to tell you what the laws of Mexico are. The correct answer from a foreign official should be, "Ask the Mexican government what their laws are.".

[Studio del Sol]

The lesson is very clear: Don't ask an official of any foreign government to tell you what the laws of Mexico are. The correct answer from a foreign official should be, "Ask the Mexican government what their laws are.".

This is why I asked Senor Pinedo in writing. I also called Mago's Office and asked the staff there because I did have to leave Mexico for 4 months to tend to several pressing issues in CA--dying cat, Dr. appointment, driver's lic renewal and car reg. I was told I could leave my car locked up inside my property gate, and apply for an FM3 (now FMM) when I returned. I was also told it was better to start the FMM application before my car permit expired, but that I could do it afterwards. The other thing I learned (and I can't remember from whom) is that the car permit and the tourist permit are not tied to each other. They are separate permits, which may be why Senor Pinedo has said as long as you are legal in Mexico, your car is legal, even if the car permit has expired.