Mainecoons Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 It's about to become official. https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/bill-social-security-mandatory-domestic-workers/ Quote The reform, supported by 486 deputies and opposed by none, will become law once it has been promulgated by President López Obrador. It adds a new chapter to the LSS that stipulates that employers of workers such as housekeepers and nannies must register them with IMSS. Employers of full-time and part-time workers will be required to comply with the new law, meaning that they will have to make a monetary contribution to IMSS and retain and forward an employee’s contribution to the same institute. I suspect most of us use domestic help at a relatively low level but it appears any use will be covered. We are planning to ask a local Mexican attorney for assistance in figuring out how to comply. The government apparently thinks that their pilot program for this means everyone, even the most minimal employers like us know how to comply. I sincerely doubt this. If a local attorney is up to speed on this program, we would appreciate knowing who. We are hoping Azucena Bateman will be one of those as we have had excellent results with her in the past. It will be interesting to see what impact this is going to have on these jobs. We may consolidate our two gardeners into one if the cost and difficult of compliance justifies it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringal Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 In the case of having one lady who works 4 hours on one day a week, and who has many others who use her services...is she considered my "employee" re this new law or is she "self employed"? (I very much doubt she reports her earnings under any label) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tingting Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 And how many will lose their jobs because the employer can't/won't pay? It sounds like a good idea on paper, but reality may be very different (I'm not taking a stand on this, just an observation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted October 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 43 minutes ago, gringal said: In the case of having one lady who works 4 hours on one day a week, and who has many others who use her services...is she considered my "employee" re this new law or is she "self employed"? (I very much doubt she reports her earnings under any label) That's a good point since most if not all work for cash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natasha Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, gringal said: In the case of having one lady who works 4 hours on one day a week, and who has many others who use her services...is she considered my "employee" re this new law or is she "self employed"? Mainecoons please add this to your questions with the lawyer. I have one lady 3 1/2 hours every second week ( sometimes less if she requests) and no way I'm getting into all that hassle even tho' the idealistic form of this concept is great. And if this means EVERY worker in Mexico, what about the little mom and pop places that might have one or two part-time helpers. Can they comply? Highly doubt that. Someone on TOB said in earlier years they had asked construction workers on THAT job-site if they wanted to be enrolled in the mandatory coverage re: job sites, or just have the person pay any medical bills if happened on the job. To a man they elected the latter, and became "independent contractors" for that one job......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainecoons Posted October 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 We'll just have to hope they put a reasonable number for the definition of part time. Otherwise, we will probably be cutting at least one person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 gringal We have to pay for every person we employ in France.. Th e pay is prorated according to the number of hours you employ that person. SS also includes pension and sick leave.. It will be interesting to see how it is enforced and what each employer will have to do. If it is too much trouble it may backfire and some people may lose thieir job. In France it is enforced and the system is simple and expensive.. it will be interesting to see how and if it is enforced here. There are plenty of people working full time who are not getiing paid ss... Imagine all tHe vendors at he tianguis and on the street who hae relatives selling for them part time and full time. None of them are getting IMSS.. I also know that the government fines the employers if this is found out but I would imagine that it is rarely discovered if no one complains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakeside7 Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 hours ago, bmh said: gringal We have to pay for every person we employ in France.. Th e pay is prorated according to the number of hours you employ that person. SS also includes pension and sick leave.. It will be interesting to see how it is enforced and what each employer will have to do. If it is too much trouble it may backfire and some people may lose thieir job. In France it is enforced and the system is simple and expensive.. it will be interesting to see how and if it is enforced here. There are plenty of people working full time who are not getiing paid ss... Imagine all tHe vendors at he tianguis and on the street who hae relatives selling for them part time and full time. None of them are getting IMSS.. I also know that the government fines the employers if this is found out but I would imagine that it is rarely discovered if no one complains. Really do we/I care about what happens in France. This issue seems to have been around for ever...and more "regulation" will provide more reason to work through a "manager" and employ people on a "Independent contract." basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomgates Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 In the 15 years we owned a house in Ajijic, we used Chapala Realty to manage the pay for our gardener, maid and pool guy. Well worth the $900mp monthly charge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappysmarket Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Were we still in Mexico I would solve this problem by having our attorney register the workers with IMSS, if they already are not. Then I would have him tell me how much is the employees share and rather than actually withhold it, just add it to my share and make the appropriate deposit to IMSS each month. In the case of someone working a few hours a week we're talking real short money. If you ignore it will you get caught? Probably not. The real risk is if you ignore, even with the employees permission, is some really large bill being incurred by that employee that they can't pay. Then the burden of paying that bill may shift to you. Think accident, cancer, heart attack, etc. Play the game and pay the attorney to keep you legal...you'll sleep better also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gringal Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Once upon a time I had a job with the government (US) which required knowledge of what constituted an employer-employee relationship, as opposed to the person being self-employed. From what I know, many of these occasional workers meet the definition of "self-employed" rather than having an "employee" relationship with the person who pays them. (In the case of many occasional cleaning people, the person paying them does nothing to direct how they work.) I do agree that it may be best to consult an attorney about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo1 Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 Most of those in the underground economy are independent contractors similar to my gardener and housekeeper. If they want me to register them for SS, they also need to understand that the govt. will want SS fees from every employer. Not a problem for me and the few hours they work. But then the govt is going to want taxes from all the money the employee makes and their take-home pay will take a hit. I don't know how much but my gardener said he will figure it out at home before he makes a decision to decline or not. I doubt that more than a few will want the govt to know their business and for the same govt to have more money available for graft and nepotism. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdawgs Posted November 2, 2022 Report Share Posted November 2, 2022 On 10/31/2022 at 8:51 AM, gringal said: Once upon a time I had a job with the government (US) which required knowledge of what constituted an employer-employee relationship, as opposed to the person being self-employed. From what I know, many of these occasional workers meet the definition of "self-employed" rather than having an "employee" relationship with the person who pays them. (In the case of many occasional cleaning people, the person paying them does nothing to direct how they work.) I do agree that it may be best to consult an attorney about this. Years ago I was told if you provide all the tools etc you are the employer. If the person comes with all their tools, cleaning products etc, they are a service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappysmarket Posted November 3, 2022 Report Share Posted November 3, 2022 20 hours ago, luvsdawgs said: Years ago I was told if you provide all the tools etc you are the employer. If the person comes with all their tools, cleaning products etc, they are a service. That is an excellent short answer that will be true 95% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feewee Posted December 28, 2022 Report Share Posted December 28, 2022 Hello Maine Coon - anything new on this topic? Did you contact the lawyer you mentioned in your earlier post? Thank you, FeeWee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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