Implementing this is going to be "interesting"

[Mainecoons]

And just how do they expect people and the companies to come up with all of this?

Crazy.

1984 has arrived in Mexico.

https://www.vallartadaily.com/cell-phone-users-in-mexico-have-two-years-to-submit-their-biometric-data-to-the-government-or-lose-service/

[gringal]

Hmmm.  Something to be said for land lines, maybe !!😉

[Mainecoons]

The opposition is taking it to court as a violation of the Constitution.  Hopefully saner and smarter heads will prevail.

[lcscats]

Well you know those phones you just put up your money each month and how they don't have any names or info on them well they are the problem.   Criminals use them and throw them away.  I Bet they will be gone in the US soon also.   We live in very strange times. Now lets talk about rights.  Is a phone a right or like driving where you have to give info?  I don't know where the line is but I will point out the mexican government is not forcing you to use a cell phone.   OK fire away 🙂  I don't have a cell phone but I do see how it is more difficult to live without one. By the way 1984 has been here a long time ago most folks just have not noticed.  

[Mainecoons]

No but a lot of places pretty much require them to do business.  In many places in this country cell phones are the only option.

This is not only a violation of privacy rights it will be ineffective.  Read the article.  Most of the phones used by criminals are stolen as the article points out.

Speaking for myself, I don't want to see Mexico turn into a police state like the two NOB.  Thanks.

 

[lcscats]

9 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

No but a lot of places pretty much require them to do business.  In many places in this country cell phones are the only option.

This is not only a violation of privacy rights it will be ineffective.  Read the article.  Most of the phones used by criminals are stolen as the article points out.

 

So you are saying you have a right to a completely open phone???   Not so sure.  Lets see what others say.  Phones didn't exist when the constitution was written.   Technology and the constitution have problems.  Can you imagine being a judge and dealing with issues like this. No thanks. By the way the new phone will only work for you and it will use this info to stop working if the phone is stolen.  Kinda as easy as making the fingerprint option on current phones mandatory.  Time will tell.  I suppose you could cut off finger but than you could have a heat sensor added to the cell phone.   Governments will not tolerate folks so independent. 

[Ferret]

Maybe it would just be easier to ban burner phones? Why would anyone need or want a burner unless it was for nefarious purposes?

[lcscats]

2 minutes ago, Ferret said:

Maybe it would just be easier to ban burner phones? Why would anyone need or want a burner unless it was for nefarious purposes?

Because I want one nothing more nothing nefarious.  

[Mainecoons]

10 minutes ago, lcscats said:

So you are saying you have a right to a completely open phone???   Not so sure.  Lets see what others say.  Phones didn't exist when the constitution was written.   Technology and the constitution have problems.  Can you imagine being a judge and dealing with issues like this. No thanks. By the way the new phone will only work for you and it will use this info to stop working if the phone is stolen.  Kinda as easy as making the fingerprint option on current phones mandatory.  Time will tell.  I suppose you could cut off finger but than you could have a heat sensor added to the cell phone.   Governments will not tolerate folks so independent. 

Not everyone can afford a $1000 cell phone with those anti theft features.

The legal question here is not about the phone.  It is about the right of the Mexican government to treat everyone as a potential criminal and require the submission of such detailed and very personal information.  I expect the Supreme Court here won't have a lot of trouble figuring that at all.

Can't imagine why you would be comfortable with that last sentence but different strokes for different folks.

[HoneyBee]

I need to read 1984 again. Social media like Facebook and twitter seem to be doing their part as well...😊

[Mostlylost]

38 minutes ago, Ferret said:

Maybe it would just be easier to ban burner phones? Why would anyone need or want a burner unless it was for nefarious purposes?

A burner phone is a prepaid phone. A non burner phone is a monthly contract that you receive a bill for.

Many Mexicans can't afford or budget to pay monthly. They put $20 or $50 at a time when they have cash available, on their "burner" phone

[Ferret]

Thanks for the explanation. I still don't really get the economics part of it though because my housekeeper doesn't have two pesos to rub together yet she's got a better phone that I do. 

[lcscats]

38 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Not everyone can afford a $1000 cell phone with those anti theft features.

The legal question here is not about the phone.  It is about the right of the Mexican government to treat everyone as a potential criminal and require the submission of such detailed and very personal information.  I expect the Supreme Court here won't have a lot of trouble figuring that at all.

Can't imagine why you would be comfortable with that last sentence but different strokes for different folks.

My 150 dollar Huawei phone has a fingerprint sensor on it.  Just rewrite the firmware and software so you have to use a fingerprint to open the phone. Technology is here now!!

 

"Governments will not tolerate folks so independent". Well its the truth and I don't like it but it is reality.  Look at China I bet they don't have burner phones and I bet they are trying to eliminate Bitcoin.

 

[barrbower]

I don't have a smart phone but do have a cheap cell phone in the car for emergencies.  Personal rights and societal needs, including fighting crime, have always been fluid situations.  Think about gun laws.  Think about banking policies.  International travel.  Health mandates.  Eminent domain.  Seat belts.  There are countless examples.  In any "democracy" or representative republic like these North American countries, people are elected to try to represent the wishes of the majority using socialist ideals.  That is the way it has worked since the start.  I never use the fire department but I pay taxes to support it.  I never had kids but pay taxes to cover the cost of public education.  Again, countless examples.  As individuals we can vote to put in place folks we think will better support our views on how money gets spent.  Nobody likes waste or fraud or corruption but those things also have existed since the start.  Humans aren't perfect.  There are satellites overhead watching pretty much everything we all do and the NSA has been caught listening in on private cell phone calls.  There is a chip in your passport that tracks where and how that passport gets used.  All of that put in place by governments trying to do the best they can for the majority as represented by elected officials.  As permanent residents in Mexico we have all decided to give our personal data including photos, fingerprints, etc. to a government that we hope uses that data correctly according to how we, individually, understand what "correctly" means.  We have less input on how any official policy, like the cell phone issue, is handled since we can't vote.  We can try to voice opinions to those who can vote in an attempt to influence policy but we live in environments where things might not always go as we'd like.  Countless examples.  Better to just worry about the weather...something we can better control!   Alan

[mudgirl]

2 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Not everyone can afford a $1000 cell phone with those anti theft features.

My $150 phone has a fingerprint sensor, too. Not sure where you got the idea that you have to spend $1000 on a phone.

 

2 hours ago, Ferret said:

Maybe it would just be easier to ban burner phones? Why would anyone need or want a burner unless it was for nefarious purposes?

??? I have a cell phone and don't use a plan- I'm not interested in signing contracts with Telcel. And there aren't any phone lines where Iive, so I couldn't have a house phone even if I wanted one. I just put time on the cell phone at the OXO when I run out. That's called a burner phone. I can assure you I don't do any nefarious business with it, nor do the vast majority of the hundreds of thousands of others who do the same  🙂

[Mostlylost]

 

2 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Not everyone can afford a $1000 cell phone with those anti theft features.

 

If you want to block someone from seeing your phone's information & apps, or using your phone,  most phones have a password option available. You don't need a fingerprint scanner. 

With Telcel if your phone is lost or stolen you can turn it off. You can then go to Telcel and have them make a new simm card with your old number. 

You can also use your Apple, or Android phone tracker to see where it is if you just misplaced it and then make it ring at full volume even if in silent mode. 

Stolen phones are pretty much useless for the bad guys to use as most get the simm blocked when the owner reports it to the carrier.  They are only useful to sell without the simm card. 

[mexjerry]

Go read up on IMEI blocking

for example:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2020/02/28/no-more-illegal-phones-indonesia-to-impose-imei-control-regulation-on-april-18.html

the governments already have the capabilities to prevent, why add another unenforceable law

[lcscats]

3 hours ago, barrbower said:

I don't have a smart phone but do have a cheap cell phone in the car for emergencies.  Personal rights and societal needs, including fighting crime, have always been fluid situations.  Think about gun laws.  Think about banking policies.  International travel.  Health mandates.  Eminent domain.  Seat belts.  There are countless examples.  In any "democracy" or representative republic like these North American countries, people are elected to try to represent the wishes of the majority using socialist ideals.  That is the way it has worked since the start.  I never use the fire department but I pay taxes to support it.  I never had kids but pay taxes to cover the cost of public education.  Again, countless examples.  As individuals we can vote to put in place folks we think will better support our views on how money gets spent.  Nobody likes waste or fraud or corruption but those things also have existed since the start.  Humans aren't perfect.  There are satellites overhead watching pretty much everything we all do and the NSA has been caught listening in on private cell phone calls.  There is a chip in your passport that tracks where and how that passport gets used.  All of that put in place by governments trying to do the best they can for the majority as represented by elected officials.  As permanent residents in Mexico we have all decided to give our personal data including photos, fingerprints, etc. to a government that we hope uses that data correctly according to how we, individually, understand what "correctly" means.  We have less input on how any official policy, like the cell phone issue, is handled since we can't vote.  We can try to voice opinions to those who can vote in an attempt to influence policy but we live in environments where things might not always go as we'd like.  Countless examples.  Better to just worry about the weather...something we can better control!   Alan

Now don't panic people about the passport chip.  Its a very simple strip chip probably name and some passport number.  It does not broadcast more than a few feet and has nothing to do with GPS.  I took my passport into  a electronic dead room and looked at its output.  But maybe my next passport maybe, maybe not 🙂 I am sure they have special electronics in certain passports like Diplomatic ones or people the government are interested in but the average Joe doesn't have anything special inside his/hers passport YET.

[mudgirl]

4 hours ago, Ferret said:

I still don't really get the economics part of it though because my housekeeper doesn't have two pesos to rub together yet she's got a better phone that I do. 

Priorities. She may appear to not have 2 pesos to rub together, but I notice a lot of people are like children with money- when they get some, they spend it right away on something they want without thinking about how they will pay the electric bill that is coming next week. So maybe when she got her Xmas bonuses in Dec, she went out and blew the whole wad on a nice phone.

 

[Ferret]

Different priorities for sure. I prioritize by what I need not by what I want. I've also been known to talk myself totally out of buying something. Different strokes for different folks.

[AlanMexicali]

20 minutes ago, mudgirl said:

Priorities. She may appear to not have 2 pesos to rub together, but I notice a lot of people are like children with money- when they get some, they spend it right away on something they want without thinking about how they will pay the electric bill that is coming next week. So maybe when she got her Xmas bonuses in Dec, she went out and blew the whole wad on a nice phone.

 

Or more likely her children gave it to her.

[Ferret]

She doesn't have a child old enough to buy her one.

[gringohombre]

5 hours ago, lcscats said:

My 150 dollar Huawei phone has a fingerprint sensor on it.  Just rewrite the firmware and software so you have to use a fingerprint to open the phone. Technology is here now!!

 

"Governments will not tolerate folks so independent". Well its the truth and I don't like it but it is reality.  Look at China I bet they don't have burner phones and I bet they are trying to eliminate Bitcoin.

 

So we should be like China??? By "we" I mean North America.

[lcscats]

1 hour ago, gringohombre said:

So we should be like China??? By "we" I mean North America.

Only you could come up with that. 

[CHILLIN]

This is the worse time ever to choose to become a criminal. Surveilance and gps technologies are exploding in growth and innovation. Not only that, but now there is a large group of highly experienced operators, now that wars are winding down. What are these guys going to do - install streaming cable. When Starlink, and similar networks are installed. There will be nowhere to hide. Especially if the goverment forces microchips. Billions saved on apprehension fees. Don't want this? Then no goodies for you, no medical care, no schooling, no police protection - live as a complete outsider, your choice. Italian Alps looks good.

Ever read " A soldier of the great war" by Mark Helprin. great book 4.5 stars on goodreads.