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SA, " It used to be such a quiet little town"


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5 hours ago, TelsZ4 said:

I never invited you and I’m sure Adelita’s wouldn’t want you there.. Not that you would get a table there anyway.... every night there’s music there, it’s a full house..There are still lots of expats and Mexicans who enjoy a night of music and dancing...

What are you on about?

Was maincoons who invited me to his end..

Infact until recently i frequented adelitas a lot. 

Great bar..

 

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El Doc is a large, well known eventos in SAT, at La Paz and Priv La Paz. The noise used to be intolerable music and cohetes until 2 am on weekends. etc. The locals took up a petition which apparently half the town signed from what I saw. The noise is much better now. Cohetes usually finish before 10 or 11 and they aren't as loud and long as they used to be. Usually. And never the all night sessions that we used to have. So noise abatement is possible.

https://www.facebook.com/eldocterrazadeeventos

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I used to live about 3 blocks as the crow flies from Adelita's when the music would rival a band directly across the street from my house.  At least for the last year their music has been turned way down and is tolerable.  The eventos on La Paz is MUCH quieter too.  They were REALLY intolerable but no bother now.  So someone did something about the problem.

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I have lived for over 13 years in lower SAT about 3 blocks from Adelitas. I have seen this place grow from a small hole in the wall sandwich/coffee shop to the first class, large classy establishment that it is now. About 10 years ago the mother of Jason, the current owner/operator, bought the place and I saw the gradual improvements through the subsequent years and about 4 years ago, a major 3 - 4 month renovation and enlargement including the large covered patio area in the back. Jason, being a musician himself improved the entertainment to the point that now the music is considered among the very best Lakeside with a mix of Latin and my favorite, Old Time Rock n' Roll from the 60's, 70's and 80's. Someone stated wrongly here that there is music nightly...not so...only on Friday, Saturday and Monday nights. Someone else stated wrongly that the customers are mostly expats and not Mexican. Also wrong. The Tapatios and Mexican locals have discovered the great food and entertainment and there is usually a great mix of folks there. I used to hear the music somewhat at my house depending on how the wind was blowing, but now not. Recently, enjoying the music there I ran into Jason's mother and mentioned that I was not hearing it at my house anymore. She pointed to a digital meter devise on the wall facing the musicians and it was reading between 80 and 90. She told me that the bandleaders were instructed to keep it below 100 since it was hooked up to some type of decibel meter outside and anything under 100 on the wall meter inside was legal. I know nothing about the Evento but Alelitas has been nothing but a very good restaurant and music/dance club and a very positive attraction to our wonderful little pueblo. 

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I think you don't understand the law too well.  The 100 db standard is for occasional ceremonies and events, not the routine daily or weekly bar entertainment.  That standard applies to something like holiday banda concerts on local plazas.  Also the law requires the municipio to provide 24 hour per day response and monitoring for compliance, which Chapala is not doing.  Basically, as one writer noted in this week's GDL Reporter, Chapala isn't enforcing the law.  For example, the time limit of four hours for concerts is being grossly violated by the Charro concerts at the bull ring and complaints regarding same have been ignored.

If Chapala is telling people the standard for bars is 100 db they are not following the law as written.  That's hardly unusual here.  :) 

It doesn't matter what the db level is inside the venue with the exception the law does have specific protections for employees.  Customers are not covered by those provisions, perhaps the writers of the law figured they would have more sense.  I'm not sure that is true at least locally. 

The primary standard is measured outside the business and immediately adjacent which is what the municipios actually following and enforcing the law are doing..  Residential area standards, where most of these bars are, are the toughest.  Using the rule of thumb of noise level doubling with each 10db, the level outside Adelitas was twice as loud as permitted when we measured it using a commercial sound meter, not a cell phone.

Be glad you are 3 blocks away as sound level decrease with the square of distance.  However whether you like the music or the establishment that does not give you or them the right to enroll the neighbors into being an involuntary audience.  The sound levels outside their property are in serious violation of the law as confirmed by direct measurement.  When it is so loud it interferes with mass through the thick walls of the adjacent iglesia that ought to tell you something.

BTW, 100 db is ear damaging after 15 minutes.  But, hey, its your ears.  I think most of the old gringos who hang out in these places listening to geriatric rock and roll and think they can dance are deaf anyway. :D 

Very good source for accurate information about these laws and their origins to be found on the "Cruazada Contra El Ruido" web site.  They are an organization of Mexicans seeking to calm the din in Jalisco.  It's all in Spanish because this organization was started and is operated by Mexicans, not expats.  

 

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1 hour ago, Mainecoons said:

I think you don't understand the law too well.  The 100 db standard is for occasional ceremonies and events, not the routine daily or weekly bar entertainment.  That standard applies to something like holiday banda concerts on local plazas.  Also the law requires the municipio to provide 24 hour per day response and monitoring for compliance, which Chapala is not doing.  Basically, as one writer noted in this week's GDL Reporter, Chapala isn't enforcing the law.  For example, the time limit of four hours for concerts is being grossly violated by the Charro concerts at the bull ring and complaints regarding same have been ignored.

If Chapala is telling people the standard for bars is 100 db they are not following the law as written.  That's hardly unusual here.  :) 

It doesn't matter what the db level is inside the venue with the exception the law does have specific protections for employees.  Customers are not covered by those provisions, perhaps the writers of the law figured they would have more sense.  I'm not sure that is true at least locally. 

The primary standard is measured outside the business and immediately adjacent which is what the municipios actually following and enforcing the law are doing..  Residential area standards, where most of these bars are, are the toughest.  Using the rule of thumb of noise level doubling with each 10db, the level outside Adelitas was twice as loud as permitted when we measured it using a commercial sound meter, not a cell phone.

Be glad you are 3 blocks away as sound level decrease with the square of distance.  However whether you like the music or the establishment that does not give you or them the right to enroll the neighbors into being an involuntary audience.  The sound levels outside their property are in serious violation of the law as confirmed by direct measurement.  When it is so loud it interferes with mass through the thick walls of the adjacent iglesia that ought to tell you something.

BTW, 100 db is ear damaging after 15 minutes.  But, hey, its your ears.  I think most of the old gringos who hang out in these places listening to geriatric rock and roll and think they can dance are deaf anyway. :D 

Very good source for accurate information about these laws and their origins to be found on the "Cruazada Contra El Ruido" web site.  They are an organization of Mexicans seeking to calm the din in Jalisco.  It's all in Spanish because this organization was started and is operated by Mexicans, not expats.  

 

I do not think that I was clear or you misunderstood. The inside meter is hooked up to an OUTSIDE decibel meter and I think that it is in %, in other words 100 is the highest % that can go. I know for a fact that they have put a lot of effort in complying with the LETTER of the law, and from personal experience it has toned down a lot. I do not know when you tested it but I doubt if it was recently. I do not think that they would jepordise a very successful enterprise by knowingly breaking the law. Also as someone else here has explained they have worked out things with the church so all is good with that. 

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Well it was just a few weeks back.  And 100 db outside would represent something on the order of four times the legal limit.  Normally noise is measured in decibels, not percentage.

We actually did this for comparison with our local nemesis not to give Adelitas a hard time.  I don't live in SAT and while I support the people there in controlling these bars I wouldn't presume to get directly involved there.  

We do like Adelitas, unlike our local nemesis it is quite a good restaurant and one of our favorites.  But to protect the hearing I have left I would never remain in there once the loud music starts.  It was just way too loud for the comfort of everyone in our group.

My point about the church is that if the music outside the place is so loud even through those thick walls things have to be "worked out" that is definitely going to exceed the legal limits under the new law.  

Maybe some of the local musicians and their fans will figure out that loud does not automatically equal good.  Quite the contrary.  :) 

 

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1 hour ago, Mainecoons said:

 

Maybe some of the local musicians and their fans will figure out that loud does not automatically equal good.  Quite the contrary.  :) 

 

They get recommendations from attendees by counting what percentage of the people get up and dance at salon events. The louder the music the less people can chat inside - yelling at each other but no one can understand each other kills conversations -  therefore they get bored sitting doing nothing after the food - drink some liquor and end up dancing. The DJs and bands blast the music on purpose to get a reputation of getting most of the attendees up dancing and having a good time. They know exactly what they are doing to get more salon events and bar jobs and probably charge more. Sounds very, very far from good acoustically but it is what "good" bands do in our area. 

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17 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

I'm curious Alan, what is the status of the national noise law enforcement there in San Luis Potosi?  We get a lot of news about the crack down in Zapopan and Guadalajara and some about Mexico City but not much from other places.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.elsoldesanluis.com.mx/local/mas-de-150-denuncias-por-exceso-de-ruido-ecologia-3209995.html/amp

Google Translation:

"El Sol de San Luis

LOCAL

/ WEDNESDAY, MARCH 20, 2019

More than 150 complaints of excessive noise: Ecology

Most complaints are resolved; few reach the fine; the western areas and the city center are the ones that have the most hearing pollution

Audio pollution | Photo Norma Rivera

Miguel Ángel Mora

More than 150 complaints of excessive noise have received the direction of Ecology from the City Council of San Luis Potosí in the last three months; most have been resolved, but those establishments or individuals who have recidivized themselves have been fined.

According to the head of the area, Israel Esparza Rodríguez, the majority of complaints for exceeding the permitted noise levels come from different areas of the city, but mainly from the western and central area.

He pointed out that during the year the ecology department has registered a total of 160 complaints for excessive noise, so it has been proceeded according to the protocols, that is, the complaint is hardly received when the inspectors come to the home to verify its truthfulness.

Once it is confirmed that there is excess noise, special equipment is used to measure decibels, and the manager or owner is informed that he is committing a violation of the Ecology regulation; In most cases the call of the inspectors is answered, but when it recurs, the fine is applied, which becomes from 10 UMA's [unit of measure] and onwards.

He indicated that any citizen can report high levels of noise, whether from a company or workshop, from a commercial establishment and, even, from individuals, what can be done through official social networks, on the helpline (444 ) 834 54 34 or directly at the Ecology and Public Toilet offices in the Municipal Administrative Unit.

Esparza Rodríguez clarified that the attention to complaints of excessive noise has no collection purpose, but is intended to influence the conscience of the citizen."

They are doing something here lately according to this current article.

When I attend an "evento" in a salon I can't hear anyone at our table, even when yelling. My ears are ringing for almost 20 minutes after we leave. We have been to over fifty and about 3 had the music low enough to converse in a loud voice all night. Some had breaks in the loud noise during the meal and some before the meal but after it got very loud and closer to the end it got even louder.

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There are two issues at play here. Firstly, amateur or even semi pro musicians can't believe people would want to talk through their amazing performances. The extreme is they play so loud that no one can recognise their lack of skill. The most famous example of this was Sid Vicious, bass player for the Sex Pistols. When they started he had no idea how to play bass, but he eventually became quite skilled. Another famously loud band was Motorhead, the musicians were talented but Lenny had such a high energy, to the limit voice, the rest of the band had to keep up. No ballads from Motorhead, the same as the guitarist for AC/DC, Angus was a briliant thunderbolt that the rest of the band had to follow. They recently tried to reunite, but they had to fire the original drummer because he was deaf!

The second issue is if they are using house sound systems. If so, the DJs set up for high thumping bass, especially for electronic dance music. Then a live group comes in, does not change the settings, and you have very loud boomy set. Bass travels a long distance. In Vancouver, the low frequency bass sound is factored into the overall reading at a much higher rate. I'm sure they will evolve in this direction. Sub woofers are a fairly new piece of equipment. I have a 10 inch, 120 volt powered Paradigm subwoofer, and even this size can accurately recreate an earthquake or overhead helicopter in dolby 5.1. I have a whole system, including an up to date Onkyo amp for sale by the way. It would be great for a small bar or venue to have blu-ray live concerts. It is spine tingling realistic, and the advertising easy, "Friday night, Pink Floyd live in concert, the Drunken Clam bar" then the necessary smaller print of course.

 

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Can you imagine watching this in surround sound, blu-ray quality big screen, you would feel like you are actually in the crowd.

I used to have a bootleg recording of the Sex Pistols live at the London 100 club. They were crap. I was in a band for a short time with this guy, he refers to the event in this song. I Ludicrous, David Rippengale, or Will Hung as he used to call himself back in the day!

They have many recordings, one time I believe they opened for The Fall. 

 

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lastight we had a band playing veryloud..It was in the 80 decibels in th ehouse with the windows closed. ut it was really good music.. still it is very insettling when y cannot hear your own tv with closed windows.. That was in Ajijic near the Danza del Sol...

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