Getting Property Deed transferred to another name

[Zeb]

We purchased a home in August and my spouse had died and now I only own half the house.  Although there is a clause in the deed stating, I am the beneficiary, evidently, the deed cannot be put in my name without paying a transfer tax.

I want to share my experience thus far, in case it could help someone else.  As of now the deed has not been changed.

What I have learned is that this is very expensive.  Although I have been told the major cost is the tax and not the Notary Fee, I see this that this is not true.  I have visited the tax office directly and gotten the formula by which the transfer tax is calculated.  The tax is calculated on half the value of the house, which is the portion I own.  The tax valuation value is used and, in my case, it is 2.60% of that.  This comes to 18,000 pesos (approximately $1,000 USD)  The Notarios have told me their fee is nominal (false!).  They stated it would cost me $1,800 US Dollars, so that makes their fee $800 USD. 

Additionally, Mexicans are not charged any transfer tax when someone dies. It is only charged to expats.  I am not done finding a less expensive way to get this done. 

[Natasha]

So for now.... why panic?  You are the beneficiary.  Even if you die tomorrow, your estate is still the beneficiary of that half.  Meanwhile, yes.... talk to a lawyer or three as well as a couple  more notarios. 

[traderspoc]

that's good news , where is the tax office located, you did it yourself without he notary

[bmh]

I would think you will have to pay a notary to put the 50% of the deed in your name .._Is that correct  or no? Maybe that is the 800 dollars you are talking about. I would be interested in your findings.

We were foreigners when we bought but now we are Mexicans and a notary in Chiapas told me I still had to pay the transfer tax because we were foreigners when we bought.. We went around and around because I told him  it was illegal for him to consider me a foreigner and therefore I should not be paying the tax.but I bet that will be another battle for one of us..

[Zeb]

23 minutes ago, bmh said:

I would think you will have to pay a notary to put the 50% of the deed in your name .._Is that correct  or no? Maybe that is the 800 dollars you are talking about. I would be interested in your findings.

We were foreigners when we bought but now we are Mexicans and a notary in Chiapas told me I still had to pay the transfer tax because we were foreigners when we bought.. We went around and around because I told him  it was illegal for him to consider me a foreigner and therefore I should not be paying the tax.but I bet that will be another battle for one of us..

it appears the Notary is the one to do it. However, it makes no sense that I cannot just go to the tax office pay the tax and get a new deed.  After all, I believe the deed comes from the tax office, so I would like to bypass the Notario.  This is like applying for residency directly with Migracion instead of paying someone to run those errands, and usually the facilitators just run the errands of getting the documents, turning them in and going to the bank, etc.  That's really all there is to it as you can get the list of requirements right from Migracion.  To me this business with the tax office logically would be the same thing.   It's still a work in progress, so not sure how it will end up as government employees usually are incapable of thinking outside the box and using logic.  I think all the Notario will do is take and pay the fee and pick up the deed, but I will investigate further to see if my thinking is correct.  I will post what I learn here.

Insofar as you situation goes with the citizenship and transfer tax, I would get a copy of the regulations pertaining to the transfer tax and read it myself or get someone who can read it for you.

[Zeb]

1 hour ago, traderspoc said:

that's good news , where is the tax office located, you did it yourself without he notary

The tax office is in Chapala right across from the church near the Malecon.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Zeb
Typing correction.

[bmh]

You cannot bypass notaries they are the ones who write up and register the deed and research them as well .. they are part of the system so forget about not having a notary.You are stuck, in my opinion.The system is a French Napoleonic system and the the notary job was and is  a charge from the government.. They are to be impartial, research titles.. and cannot be bypassed. I am French and we have the same system in France. Pay up and relax.

[Zeb]

7 minutes ago, bmh said:

You cannot bypass notaries they are the ones who write up and register the deed and research them as well .. they are part of the system so forget about not having a notary.You are stuck, in my opinion.The system is a French Napoleonic system and the the notary job was and is  a charge from the government.. They are to be impartial, research titles.. and cannot be bypassed. I am French and we have the same system in France. Pay up and relax.

I am French as well, so I understand some about the system.  However, thank you for your input on this.

[Ferret]

Brigitte is correct Zeb. There is no way to do this legally without a Notario's involvement.

[Hud]

Zeb, fraud is probably why a Notario is required. He guarantees the deed is transferable to you from the other owner. Otherwise, things in Mexico will get screwed up quickly (not that there isn't a lot already). Find your best deal and go with it. Suerte.

 

[Intercasa]

Your are getting bad advice, lo barato sale caro.  

[Zeb]

49 minutes ago, Intercasa said:

Your are getting bad advice, lo barato sale caro.  

Which part?  A Notario is not needed then?

[slainte39]

Another hopeless case, searching for that "right" answer. He´ll know it when it finally arrives.

[Intercasa]

The part about only foreigners paying transfer tax.  I do lots of probate cases and transfers and the only difference for foreigners is the SRE permit.  There is no different tax treatment and the only time they try to apply different treatment is with a reduction of value for property tax maybe saving you under $40US.  There are ways to pay tax and avoid a notary but your estate planning may be incomplete.  If your home is worth little or you have no money or dont plan to sell then let your heirs clean up the mess, make them work for it.  

[traderspoc]

8 hours ago, Intercasa said:

The part about only foreigners paying transfer tax.  I do lots of probate cases and transfers and the only difference for foreigners is the SRE permit.  There is no different tax treatment and the only time they try to apply different treatment is with a reduction of value for property tax maybe saving you under $40US.  There are ways to pay tax and avoid a notary but your estate planning may be incomplete.  If your home is worth little or you have no money or dont plan to sell then let your heirs clean up the mess, make them work for it.  

so if i become a citizen of mexico , i still have to pay the transfer tax if a spouse dies

[Curmudgeon]

So having a Mexican will which gives all property to another party has absolutely no effect?

[RVGRINGO]

The will provides for the transfer of the property, but does not pay the taxes or the notario fees, or the permit fee if the heir is also a foreigner and needs Mexican government permission to own property.  

[Zeb]

17 hours ago, Intercasa said:

The part about only foreigners paying transfer tax.  I do lots of probate cases and transfers and the only difference for foreigners is the SRE permit.  There is no different tax treatment and the only time they try to apply different treatment is with a reduction of value for property tax maybe saving you under $40US.  There are ways to pay tax and avoid a notary but your estate planning may be incomplete.  If your home is worth little or you have no money or dont plan to sell then let your heirs clean up the mess, make them work for it.  

Interesting and thank you for responding.  So then, either Notarios are misinformed or lying.  Either way incorrect information.  My plan was to make a Mexican will to handle the few items I own here in Mexico (home, vehicle, bank account) I don't want my heir to have a mess to clean up as heirs will have a harder time handling this than I will.

[rvanparys]

Suggest you spend a couple of bucks and get an attorney... Spencer's fees are reasonable and you can sleep at night... The attorney is an additional check to ensure that all involved do what is correct...

[Travis]

4 hours ago, Zeb said:

So then, either Notarios are misinformed or lying.

Or you misunderstood everything from the beginning...

Good luck executing a beneficiary clause in a deed, and receiving a new deed in your name only, at the tax office in Chapala. Let us know how that goes for you.

[Zeb]

1 minute ago, Travis said:

Or you misunderstood everything from the beginning...

Good luck executing a beneficiary clause in a deed, and receiving a new deed in your name only, at the tax office in Chapala. Let us know how that goes for you.

I think you are right about that.  It seems that a beneficiary clause doesn't really do anything to help get the property in my name without fees and more tax.  I will post how I worked it out once it is done.

[Mainecoons]

It would seem to me if there is a Mexican Will clearly bequeathing the property and one person dies before the other, when the second person dies the probate would be the same except there are two deaths and death certificates versus just one.   Ditto if you sell it first, it would seem to need just the proof of death of the other person.  The interim step is really not needed, am I understanding this correctly?

 

[Kyle]

In Mexico if the deed is in both your names it means you each own half.  When one dies the other person has to pay taxes on 50% of the value of the property.

[bmh]

As SRE explain to me when I put that the share of each one of us was 100% not it is 50% +50% = 100% that is it, one dies and you have to claim for the other 50%  so I put everything in my name😉

[Zeb]

On 5/31/2019 at 1:51 PM, Mainecoons said:

It would seem to me if there is a Mexican Will clearly bequeathing the property and one person dies before the other, when the second person dies the probate would be the same except there are two deaths and death certificates versus just one.   Ditto if you sell it first, it would seem to need just the proof of death of the other person.  The interim step is really not needed, am I understanding this correctly?

 

From what I understand that is not correct.  It would make total sense that it should be the way you are thinking as this was my thinking as well.  But, of course, the government has to make is complex in order to get more fees.  Someone I know was trying to purchase a property where this situation existed and before the sale could be completed, the property had to be transferred in the name of the remaining owner and it slowed everything down for two months or more.