Very cold tonight in Ajijic

[RickS]

Yes, as you see above I deleted my initial Post as I found it. Thanks.

 

[AngusMactavish]

10 minutes ago, Ferret said:

99.9% efficiency saves on high energy costs

 

Ferret, That makes no sense and I see their deception. You have only talked about a "box" that does not consume energy, so what can the efficiency be a measure of? The product information says, "These fireboxes are approved as universal fireboxes and can be paired with any ANSI Z21.11.2 approved vent free gas log set." What is the efficiency of the log set?

 

[Ferret]

Okay. First I looked up "ANSI Z21.11.2 approved vent free gas log set". Enough warnings and cautions when it's properly installed TO CODE to make me think twice. https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/a6/a66e1e92-73bb-42d0-bffb-b17c99a8b36b.pdf

Then I looked up the unvented fireboxes to find out WHY they are so efficient and found this:

https://www.thebalance.com/are-unvented-gas-log-fireplaces-right-for-your-home-1797754

Quote

Unvented gas logs are designed to produce a very hot flame that results in nearly complete fuel combustion, decreasing the levels of carbon monoxide and soot that are produced by other gas logs.

So I guess that you need the special unvented box to use the special unvented gas logs.

And, for the record, I want my heat on ALL night if possible and needed and would not buy one of these. I was just answering someone else's question.

[utilitus]

"Modern ventless fireplace models are strictly regulated by federal agencies and standards groups for safe operation in your home. But the debate about their safety does continue. In fact, Massachusetts and California, as well as Canada and other countries, have outlawed gas and propane ventless fireplaces."  See: https://www.houselogic.com/organize-maintain/home-maintenance-tips/ventless-fireplaces-what-you-need-know/ 

And some heat will escape through venting, but these systems are as efficient as they can make them, apparently 70-80%.  See: https://mendotahearth.com/pdfs/brochures/Efficiency Broch.pdf

I'm in the design phase for a small house Lakeside, and will at least build-in the required propane and electrical connections for a tasteful little wirelessly controlled vented fireplace, even if radiant floor heating is installed.  

[Bisbee Gal]

12 hours ago, RickS said:

Just for the sake of conversation B-Gal, could you tell us what exactly that might mean?  What did you mean by it?  I personally don’t know of anything that is 99.9% heat efficient. Maybe it means that your fireplace can ‘direct’ a lot (99.9%?) of the heat than can be generated by burning fossil fuel out into a room. But I’m pretty sure that your are not getting 99.9%  efficiency of burned fuel. 

Just curious.....

 

We have used ventless since 2003 at our Bisbee house.  And yes we always have a carbon monoxide monitor nearby even though there are oxygen-depletion sensors on all ventless fireplaces.  I am not certain I would recommend in an air tight high-efficiency built home, but not a concern in our 1913 Bisbee miner's cabin nor here at our Mexican built home, both with plenty of natural air exchange 😁

We only use it for a few hours in the  morning to take the chill out of the main room and it raises the temperature quickly.

https://www.hearthandgrill.com/info/the-difference-between-vented-and-vent-free-gas-logs/

1. Vented and Vent Free gas logs are as different in operation as night and day.  They are not interchangeable and an old set of Vented logs cannot be turned into Vent Free.  Vented logs operate more closely to a real wood fire, than do Vent Free.   Vented gas logs must be operated with the damper fully open on a wood-burning fireplace, either masonry with a flu and chimney or a prefabricated firebox with vent pipe.
2. Vented gas logs, such as Real Fyre logs by Peterson, are typically installed for their realistic appearance, providing the flame and coals that most closely resemble a wood fire.  Vented gas logs will produce heat, however, Vented gas logs use more gas than do the vent free and have to be vented with significant portion of the heat going up chimney, therefore they are NOT an efficient heat source.
3. Vent Free gas logs, such as Empire Comfort Systems, Peterson, and Vantage Hearth, are designed and manufactured to be operated in a wood burning fireplace, in good working order, with the damper closed or in a manufactured Vent Free firebox.  With the damper closed all of the heat being produced by the Vent Free logs stays in the room.
4. Vent Free logs, also burn less gas than do the Vented gas logs.  Typically, half to two-thirds of gas is used with Vent Free, compared to the Vented logs.  The combination of consuming less gas and being operated in an environment where all the heat stays in the room make the Vent Free logs extremely efficient.
5. It is important that a set of Vent Free gas logs be set up according to the manufacturers directions.  With the logs arranged properly and the burner combusting all of the gas that comes into the vent free logs are close to 100% efficient.  However, they do not have quite as realistic appearance, compared to the Vented gas logs.
6. Vent Free gas logs are designed to be a supplemental source of heat and there are codes governing where vent free products can be used and how many BTU’s they can burn within the home.
7. Vent Free gas logs can be used in an existing Masonry or Prefabricated wood-burning fireplace with the damper closed.  With the damper closed all the heat will travel to the top of the firebox and then out of the front of the fireplace.  There are strict clearances involved with combustible materials above and around the fireplace opening.  If there is a combustible (Wood) mantle or mantle shelf above the opening of the fireplace a deflective Hood may be necessary help alleviate clearance issues when using Vent Free gas logs.

 

[tomgates]

54 this morning, warming trend!

[Ferret]

10 C/ 50 F. in Riberas at 6:30 am.

Not sure though if my thermometer goes lower than 10 C.  However, it was 20 C. inside.

[johanson]

My thermometer was at it's coldest just as the sun becomes to come up which is a little after 7:30 AM. So Ferret, you could have been a little bit cooler a little later.

In upper Ajijic mine dropped from almost 54 at 6:30 to 52 F or 11 C at 7:40 AM.  Thank God I have an indoor outdoor thermometer. No way would I go out to check every few minutes. I'm in upper Ajijic.

[Floradude]

[Mainecoons]

13 hours ago, Ferret said:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Emberglow-42-in-Vent-Free-Natural-Gas-or-Liquid-Propane-Circulating-Firebox-Insert-VFB42A/203865513

It states right in the "blurb" that it is 99.9% efficient. There are many other models and sizes available.
optional electric fans for circulation not included.

However that doesn't take into account the efficiency of where it is placed.  If placed in the middle of a room it probably is quite efficient but with a fume hazard.  If placed in a counventional fireplace enclosure a lot of the heat will go up the chimney, along with the fumes, just as with any other fire.

[Bisbee Gal]

10 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

However that doesn't take into account the efficiency of where it is placed.  If placed in the middle of a room it probably is quite efficient but with a fume hazard.  If placed in a counventional fireplace enclosure a lot of the heat will go up the chimney, along with the fumes, just as with any other fire.

Our flue is closed off with metal at top of firebox, heat radiates into room and does not go up the chimney (well, certainly some may go up chimney as nothing is air-tight in Mexico).

[Tiny]

5 hours ago, Bisbee Gal said:

Our flue is closed off with metal at top of firebox, heat radiates into room and does not go up the chimney (well, certainly some may go up chimney as nothing is air-tight in Mexico).

If that piece of metal is the damper, then it should be open when there is a fire.

https://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-does-a-fireplace-damper-work

[ManxMan]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 12:18 PM, Tiny said:

NOB we used tubes like this to move the heated air into the room.

There is also heat exchangers with a fan.

We had one of these when I was growing up except ours had a small blower attached so all the tubes blew hot air. It worked incredibly well.

[RickS]

Ditto and ditto.

To speak to the ventless fireplaces and 'government' controls.... they are banned for use in the northern part of the state where I live.

 

[La Aurora]

On 12/21/2018 at 4:36 PM, Bisbee Gal said:

We have a vent-free propane log set in our Ajijic fireplace.  99.9% heat efficiency.  

We just bought one also.Since ventless,we had a metal plate made to block heat from going up the chimeny.Kind of did it a bit early though,logs still producing smoke

[mudgirl]

On 12/21/2018 at 11:54 AM, bmh said:

I have a small fireplace in Chiapas that heats the room where we live and raises the temperature in the 2 other rooms. Never had a fireplace like that.. Meanwhile I have a large fireplace in Ajijic that is a complete waste of fuel and time.. you cannot feel the heat unless you stand in front of it.. . Both of them are traditional fireplace, I wonder why so much difference between the two... In Chiapas  the ceiling in only 3 meter high and I have wood ceiling and wood shutters  that keep the heat in at night .

 

There's an art to building an efficient fireplace, and math involved. Size, height and depth of fireplace, size and placement of flue, length of chimney, etc. It's a ratio thing. If not built according to the proper specs, it will smoke a lot, or put out virtually no heat.

A friend in Canada has one of these in her guest room, and two more elsewhere in her house.    https://www.oreckcanada.com/estore/commercial/portable_furnace_ACW0037_infrared_heater.asp

There are many other brands and styles of them out there.

They're super efficient, not a smoke or fire hazard, heat up a room really quickly, look like an attractive piece of furniture, and she said if they upped her electric bill, it wasn't enough to be particularly noticeable. When I was staying with her, I turned it off at night, then in the morning, just reached over and turned it on to temp. I wanted with the remote on the bedside table, then stayed under the covers until the room heated up, which didn't take more than 5 minutes.

Doubt they're to be found in Mexico, but if driving, would be worth it to buy one up north and bring it down. About the size of a small bedside table, but shorter.

[Bisbee Gal]

14 hours ago, Tiny said:

If that piece of metal is the damper, then it should be open when there is a fire.

https://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-does-a-fireplace-damper-work

Ventless gas fireplaces do not need a damper.  

[bmh]

Yes builing chimneys and fireplace reuires someone who knows what they are doing. In Chiapas the maestro is known for his fireplaces.. They are small and heat a lot.. I never had a fireplace that did what that one does..I was lucky he built it because I did not realze that fireplaces could be that different. The one in Ajijic burns wood but the heat goes right up the chimney so you are only warm if you stand in front of it and it does not heat enough even for here..

[Tiny]

5 hours ago, Bisbee Gal said:

Ventless gas fireplaces do not need a damper.  

I forget you were talking about ventless.

[gringal]

My house is very, very old and when we were looking at it, my husband noticed that there was no indication of soot stains on the front of the fireplace.  Sure enough, whoever built it knew what he was doing.  Never smokes, and whatever the builder did in angling the back wall, the heat comes right into that big room.  It's a large f.p., and we can build some big fires.  Do we ever need that right now !!

The only thing we did to it was add a gas log lighter: single strip.  We had to run the gas line through the walls to get there, but the craftsman who did that was a good plumber. Before that, we were chopping pieces of those "firelogs" to get the fire started, but they are made of some nasty stuff which we can do without having to breathe.

 

[CHILLIN]

Yes - let us not forget the hazards. An American couple, just retired, were renting in San Miguel Allende, and died in their first couple of days with Monoxide poisoning. This happened just a couple of weeks ago.

[Tiny]

Without a heater or fireplace, my wife says that I must be frozen on the sofa in front of the TV. HAHAHA

She said if I wanted to warm up, go wash the dishes. HAHAHA

[Bisbee Gal]

1 hour ago, CHILLIN said:

Yes - let us not forget the hazards. An American couple, just retired, were renting in San Miguel Allende, and died in their first couple of days with Monoxide poisoning. This happened just a couple of weeks ago.

Also a family on vacation in Tulum.  HOWEVER, in both instances it was faulty gas hot WATER heaters.  And in both cases they were renting in apartment or condo buildings, not single family homes.