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How many retirees return to their home countries?


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The Mexican province of Tejas (in English history books usually referred to as Mexican Texas) declared its independence from Mexico during the Texas Revolution in 1836. To suggest  otherwise is to ignore the facts, and therefore to build a dangerous bubble around oneself.

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On 11/25/2018 at 11:30 AM, CHILLIN said:

I still think the "dark horse" for Lake Chapala is not baby boomers, but rather British people who are facing exit from the European Union, and will no longer have the right to work, live and access healthcare in retirement dense sunspots like Spain and Portugal.

Question: for those you who have lived here awhile AND you have some form of health coverage in the US or Canada, how do you intend to pay for extra services, such as in-home health care, as you age?  If you return to the US  or Canada, those costs can be prohibitive. That was one of the reasons we choose to retire Mexico, using our home as our own personal ALF, so to speak, and hiring in-home care as needed. (We speak Spanish so we can function pretty well here). However, there is always the sticky issue of transporting the infirm back to NOB major health issues. How is that generally done? 

For those of living your retirement years in Mexico and have been here for awhile, would you, if you could, move to Spain or Portugal for elder care or living out your senior years? Private health insurance costs in both countries are very affordable, but the maid and the gardener, so to speak, not as inexpensive as Mexico. 

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We looked at both Spain and Portugal as places to retire before choosing Mexico. Both were much more expensive than here in 1995. As Canadians, either of us could return and have health care kick in again after a three month wait. But why would we do that? Certainly my husband chose not to... and neither would I. Long waits for specialist appointments and longer waits for treatment unless it's an emergency. Health care here is PERSONAL. I don't know where else in the world you are given contact information for your Doctor. Cell phone number, home number, office number, e-mail address. My hubby called his pain specialist and she returned his call... from South America where she was on vacation with her family... and made the changes to his meds from there. Caring service and compassion above and beyond the call of duty and that has been our experience over twenty two years. Self insured.

I'm leaving here feet first.

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8 minutes ago, kimanjome said:

Question: for those you who have lived here awhile AND you have some form of health coverage in the US or Canada, how do you intend to pay for extra services, such as in-home health care, as you age?  If you return to the US  or Canada, those costs can be prohibitive. That was one of the reasons we choose to retire Mexico, using our home as our own personal ALF, so to speak, and hiring in-home care as needed. (We speak Spanish so we can function pretty well here). However, there is always the sticky issue of transporting the infirm back to NOB major health issues. How is that generally done? 

For those of living your retirement years in Mexico and have been here for awhile, would you, if you could, move to Spain or Portugal for elder care or living out your senior years? Private health insurance costs in both countries are very affordable, but the maid and the gardener, so to speak, not as inexpensive as Mexico. 

Suggesting that the majority of Us or Canadians retire for medical reason to Spain or Portugal is like sugesting they go to the moon.

Neither the Medicare or Canadian health care extend coverage in these countries and you are faced with overcoming a foreign language and prohibitive private insurance costs

Let me assure you, sadly there are folks living here who can bearly make ends met because of their low income and frankly would be eligible for assistance in their home countries 

More lighthearted options start a GOFUNDME, ..works for some folks

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There are some questions people should ask themselves before committing to move to Mexico in their retirement years:

1) What am I going to do if I get a serious illness or am incapacitated and unable to care for myself?

2) How am I going to deal with my children's problems, should they have any? (Financial, health, etc.)

3) (For married people): What will I do if my spouse dies before me?  Will I want to stay or return "home"?

If the answer to any of the above is "return home", then by all means keep paying for Medicare Part B and seriously re-evaluate your decision to move to Mexico in the first place.  Moving is hard on people: more so as the years go by.  If you move here at 65 and stay for ten years, it's going to be a real PITA at 75...or later.

I applaud RV Gringo's stamina and resolve to not only handle the move back to Arizona from Lakeside, but yet make another move to Texas. I'm glad to hear that all that effort has had a happy ending! 😉

 

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When we were again looking for a home outside the US in 2016, we thought of Spain (where we have vacationed annually for several years), for about a nanosecond.  Spain is not as friendly to non-Schengen expats (including the US ) as Mexico for a long term visa.  Their retirement visa application required a local Spanish health insurance policy in effect, prior to visa approval at their US Consulate.  And since we maintain our Medicare B and a medigap policy, getting back to the US is a whole lot faster from GDL than it is from Spain.  

We have a beach cottage in FL that in 2018 we used a total of 8 weeks.  We go back for a week every 60 days to get our routine medical care, visit family.  Those visits also re-start our medigap policy's coverage for emergencies during the 1st 60 days of any outside the US trip.

We have not hesitated to use local doctors here and in Guadalajara with mostly excellent results but for a major event we will go back to the US if possible.  Otherwise we self-insure here and have savings for at least a few major medical emergencies.  

A major factor for returning to MX in 2017 is that aging in place is far cheaper here than in the US and we bought a home with a small casita should we need caregivers on the premises.   

That said, we are not committed to living anywhere indefinitely, here or in the US or in ???  Things change (we found that out in 2012 when we had to pack up and leave after 5 years in Ajijic and return to the US for family health issues).   

Best to re-evaluate your personal situation annually.  

52 minutes ago, kimanjome said:

Question: for those you who have lived here awhile AND you have some form of health coverage in the US or Canada, how do you intend to pay for extra services, such as in-home health care, as you age?  If you return to the US  or Canada, those costs can be prohibitive. That was one of the reasons we choose to retire Mexico, using our home as our own personal ALF, so to speak, and hiring in-home care as needed. (We speak Spanish so we can function pretty well here). However, there is always the sticky issue of transporting the infirm back to NOB major health issues. How is that generally done? 

For those of living your retirement years in Mexico and have been here for awhile, would you, if you could, move to Spain or Portugal for elder care or living out your senior years? Private health insurance costs in both countries are very affordable, but the maid and the gardener, so to speak, not as inexpensive as Mexico. 

 

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BisbeeGal: I am curious regarding  " for a major event we will go back to the US if possible."  I have noticed that a number of people here have voiced similar intentions.  Is this based on the belief that the medical care in the U.S. is superior to that obtainable in this area?

I admit to being a bit prejudiced on the subject because I was the victim of some serious medical errors back in the States which resulted in very bad outcomes, whereas the care I've received in Mexico has been excellent.  I'm aware that the U. of Guadalajara Medical School is among the highest rated internationally, so I make a point of trying to see their graduates for my care.  I had two different surgeries in 2018, both of which were successful.  I've further committed to receiving future care here by dropping my Part B coverage over a decade ago...so returning to the States for care is not a personal option.  The feature I like best about doctors here is there "equal human" attitude and patience with the patient.  (Well, maybe not ALL of them) 😎

 

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On 11/28/2018 at 5:31 PM, ComputerGuy said:

The Mexican province of Tejas (in English history books usually referred to as Mexican Texas) declared its independence from Mexico during the Texas Revolution in 1836. To suggest  otherwise is to ignore the facts, and therefore to build a dangerous bubble around oneself.

Whoa there lil' partner! Big chunk of revisionism here. Maybe you should read accounts of other than American accounts of the taming of the "Wild West" (although Robert Redford's new documentary series "The West" is brilliant). The originial 300 families to Texas were convinced to move from Louisiana, by a fast talking promotor, who assured them they would be able to keep their slaves. They were decent folk no doubt, hard working slavers, overseeing their harvests of cotton, praising Jesus, etc. The south became increasingly worried about the North banning slavery, so more slavers moved into Texas. Eventually, they seized poorly defended Mexican lands, in what what today would be a clear war crime, as when, for example, Iraq siezed Kuwait to call it their own. Don't even get me started on the Alamo or the "Indian Wars".

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I think, perhaps, that your attitude is the same as mine gringal. IF you have had medical experiences in other countries with bad outcomes, you are a little more flexible to try here. Many people (lucky ones) sail through life without medical problems until they are older. They mistakenly believe that the health care in their country of origin must be superior even if they've never partaken of it. Strange. Or perhaps it's the language barrier? Dunno. Everybody is different and their own comfort level will determine their choices.

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Spain is a Socialist government and has a hardy version of universal healthcare. Members of EU countries have free access to it, just as Spanish in other EU countries do. There are exceptions. Switzerland, who have one of the best healthcare systems in the world, bars certain expensive procedures. This is why Brexit is such a major issue. Millions of Brits who work, live and own businesses in the EU. There are millions of EU member working in Britain. What is going to happen to them?

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3 hours ago, kimanjome said:

Question: for those you who have lived here awhile AND you have some form of health coverage in the US or Canada, how do you intend to pay for extra services, such as in-home health care, as you age?  If you return to the US  or Canada, those costs can be prohibitive. That was one of the reasons we choose to retire Mexico, using our home as our own personal ALF, so to speak, and hiring in-home care as needed. (We speak Spanish so we can function pretty well here). However, there is always the sticky issue of transporting the infirm back to NOB major health issues. How is that generally done? 

For those of living your retirement years in Mexico and have been here for awhile, would you, if you could, move to Spain or Portugal for elder care or living out your senior years? Private health insurance costs in both countries are very affordable, but the maid and the gardener, so to speak, not as inexpensive as Mexico. 

I can't speak for U.S. plans. But Canadian coverage is cradle to grave. I don't know what the program is called, but Canada offers a supplement of up to $1,000 per month for lower income seniors rentals (you must live in Canada to collect it).. The assisted living or care facilities always have a certain number of subsidized care "beds" or rooms. Maximum rental, including food and care, is 25% of income. Canada health care also has a  strong outreach system for mentally disabled (who are eligible for independent 24 hour care when they reach adulthood - many stay with their parents on weekends). This is what my sister does for a living. They also have extensive home care for disabilities or illnesses. It seems to me, that the government wants to keep people in their own homes or rentals - better results, and lower costs. Immigration to Canada is difficult, but if you are really worried about your old age, immigrate there. Canada has not recognised a "retirement" visa since 1996. The U.S. is the same, but I don't know the history. If you are alread sick, they used to ask for you to sign a financial agreement that will cover that illness (s), today I think they would just reject you.

Of course you also have to listen to Liberal toned speeches, like this one on immgration 4 days ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UAH5wksmCM

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1 hour ago, gringal said:

BisbeeGal: I am curious regarding  " for a major event we will go back to the US if possible."  I have noticed that a number of people here have voiced similar intentions.  Is this based on the belief that the medical care in the U.S. is superior to that obtainable in this area?

I admit to being a bit prejudiced on the subject because I was the victim of some serious medical errors back in the States which resulted in very bad outcomes, whereas the care I've received in Mexico has been excellent.  I'm aware that the U. of Guadalajara Medical School is among the highest rated internationally, so I make a point of trying to see their graduates for my care.  I had two different surgeries in 2018, both of which were successful.  I've further committed to receiving future care here by dropping my Part B coverage over a decade ago...so returning to the States for care is not a personal option.  The feature I like best about doctors here is there "equal human" attitude and patience with the patient.  (Well, maybe not ALL of them) 😎

 

I do not trust my rudimentary Spanish for serious medical discussions, especially describing symptoms/problems when in a hospital situation when things are already tense and my Spanish exits stage right.  While doctors hereabout are proficient in English, friends have told me that hospital personnel may not be.  

We have used local Ajijic doctors and been sent to specialists and labs in Guadalajara.  Language was a bit of an issue at one lab but it wasn't a life and death situation so everyone survived 😎

We get excellent care at our US venue where we have owned a home for 5 years, have good rapport with our doctors/staff (they email me back/forth if I have a medical concern when in Ajijic, will look at test results from here).   Excellent hospitals are a 15 minute drive from our US house.  Having a US house and going back and forth (with other fun travel in-between) works for us (mid 60s); maybe we will tire of it??  But for now I can also get a fix of an excellent NY style pizza every few months 🍕

 

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Chillin', There are a number of hoops that have to be jumped through to get long term health care in Canada. My mother didn't have a Doctor because she was never sick and you NEED one to get into the long term assisted living centres. You also need a full time Canadian address and can only apply to the ones in  the county where you are living. You choose three and, whichever one comes up first with availability, you have to take it or you get bumped to the bottom of the line again. I visited and interviewed 13 before settling on the 3. The one available (after a three month wait) was Simcoe Manor in Beeton. It was perfect for my mum.

I still have the book I bought to negotiate the system... "Ready, Willing and Able". I spent a total of 17 weeks in Canada one year trying to get her the help she needed. It was not a piece of cake.

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Only trying to cursory   compare  other countries medical system with say Mexico is a waste of time...and I would suggest there only very very few members with European experience or background qualified to do so. Going on a vacation is not a real  test.

The commom observations from folks who have experienced treatments other than their home country.......the results have been Good, Bad or Ugly ...much like going to a restaurant that everyone recomend

As previously stated you and your situtaion/condion is unique.....at anytime our happy clappy feelings can change.... and Mexico doesn't have a restitution  system for settling ugly outcomes

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1 hour ago, Ferret said:

Chillin', There are a number of hoops that have to jumped through to get long term health care in Canada. My mother didn't have a Doctor because she was never sick and you NEED one to get into the long term assisted living centres. You also need a full time Canadian address and can only apply to the ones in  the county where you are living. You choose three and, whichever one comes up first with availability, you have to take it or you get bumped to the bottom of the line again. I visited and interviewed 13 before settling on the 3. The one available (after a three month wait) was Simcoe Manor in Beeton. It was perfect for my mum.

I still have the book I bought to negotiate the system... "Ready, Willing and Able". I spent a total of 17 weeks in Canada one year trying to get her the help she needed. It was not a piece of cake.

I like this post. Say it as it is. There  are lots of misconceptions about Canadian health care . Might sound good on paper but in practice is another story.

We had always good experience in Mexico.

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Lakeside 7:  " As previously stated you and your situtaion/condion is unique.....at anytime our happy clappy feelings can change.... and Mexico doesn't have a restitution  system for settling ugly outcomes " Whose situation are you referring to?

What on Earth are "happy clappy feelings"??

Do you seriously think that the U.S. has restitution for ugly outcomes?   Nearly all the time, they back one another up to cover up their mistakes.  One report I read on what happened to me was complete fiction.  Another poor potential outcome was a money grab by a group practice trying to drum up the need for unnecessary surgery (which I didn't allow).  I'll leave the gory details to history.  My husband nearly died from a prescription error.  Yes, I'm good and disillusioned.  Would a cash award in any way compensate for an ongoing health problem caused by medical error?  I think not.

My Spanish is rudimentary, but it hasn't  been in the way of having good communication with my bi-lingual doctors.  I just try to be straightforward on the details.

Bisbee Gal's situation is very different from mine.  She is a property owner and part time resident of the U.S. with continuing connections to her doctors there, whereas I sold out, moved here and never returned except for a family funeral back in 2010.  Everyone's situation is specific to them and their condition, but the questions remain the same:  "what would you do...IF".

 

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2 hours ago, Islander said:

I like this post. Say it as it is. There  are lots of misconceptions about Canadian health care . Might sound good on paper but in practice is another story.

We had always good experience in Mexico.

Well I did mention my sister is very involved with the system, and somewhat of a success story in her own right. She knows every Social Worker, Grant Agencies, Specialists on Eastern Vancouver Island. As in Mexico -who you know, not what you know or read in a book.

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9 hours ago, gringal said:

BisbeeGal: I am curious regarding  " for a major event we will go back to the US if possible."  I have noticed that a number of people here have voiced similar intentions.  Is this based on the belief that the medical care in the U.S. is superior to that obtainable in this area?

I admit to being a bit prejudiced on the subject because I was the victim of some serious medical errors back in the States which resulted in very bad outcomes, whereas the care I've received in Mexico has been excellent.  I'm aware that the U. of Guadalajara Medical School is among the highest rated internationally, so I make a point of trying to see their graduates for my care.  I had two different surgeries in 2018, both of which were successful.  I've further committed to receiving future care here by dropping my Part B coverage over a decade ago...so returning to the States for care is not a personal option.  The feature I like best about doctors here is there "equal human" attitude and patience with the patient.  (Well, maybe not ALL of them) 😎

 

Gringal with respect you (and I) are   unique ...why are "people" making blanket statements as if what you ( or i have experienced), will carry over to them ????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Some folks are just accident prone...and I try to avoid them at airports!!!!!

Also people observations of being treated in Mexico  "by (World Class Surgeons etc) or Trained in Europe ........which is drives me crazy, .......which translates to went to a one month seminar/holiday......... and got my diploma

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I don't know about you, but I research the background on the doctors I use.  Senor Google is one source.

Please name  at least one doctor in this area who practices at one of the better hospitals and who fits the description of having the background you described.   Blanket statements like that one only serve to cement the opinions of those who firmly believe that Mexican doctors are inferior to those in the States.

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I used to work at the Texas Heart Institute where world famous heart surgeon Denton Cooley would operate. There were so many doctors visiting there from all over that it was annoying. I’m sure they went back to their countries and said they participated in our programs. 

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1 hour ago, gringal said:

Maybe so.  However, a lie is a lie and liars are not to be trusted with your health.😉

In our 19 years of coming to Mexico. we have maintained a home NOB also, like BisbeeGal. Appears as if our experiences/thinking agrees with her 100%. After events where both of us could have wound up dead because of treatments received here, other than basic services, all serious treatments will continue to be handled NOB. BTW, we have had excellent experiences NOB, and have personal telephone numbers of our major doctors, and they do answer and change treatment because of our calls. Maybe we are fortunate, but all my life I have had very similar treatment and positive experiences. Maybe because I have no problem changing doctors or expressing my dissatisfaction, should the need arise. There is absolutely NO reason anyone should ever accept less than the best from their doctors. WE have not cut ties, but for those who have, I wish you luck, as it seems that you made your choice, too. One size does not fit everyone. :D

 

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