Hacienda del Lago?

[Mainecoons]

Now that's interesting because the 11 page report specifically cites some type of residential zoning as the reason for the turn down.  However, please enlighten us as to the source of your information that there is no residential zoning of any time in the Chapala municipio?

Do you understand that it is not JUST a large B&B, it is also a restaurant AND a salon all in one very constricted location all operating at the same time?

The suggestion that since Chapala haven't yet padlocked the door the operation has been approved indicates a lack of understanding of the process.  A legal closure order has been issued.  Chapala have to go through a process of proof and notification in the face of open defiance of orders just like any other government.  There is a process and it is being worked.  

Why do you think Chapala sent 4 inspectors over there?  To toast the opening of a new, fully licensed business?  Why do you think the staff cleared out in advance of the raid?  Because they knew they were in the right or because they know they are breaking the law and trying to cover up?

That was the beginning of the enforcement process, not the end.

The community and their very able legal representation will see to it.

These owners had the option from the beginning of working with the government and the community to come up with something that might be acceptable.  Instead they just plowed ahead, apparently figuring they'd either "grease" their way through or just run over the opposition only it didn't work and now some of you think they should be rewarded for that.

Have you missed the reports over the last few years posted mainly by Harry that the municipio is aware that these were many poor approvals in the past and is trying to tighten up to avoid just this sort of thing continuing?  Have you missed just how hard Harry and Hector and others in both the Mexican and expat community have been working toward this end exactly so something this inappropriate wouldn't continue to happen? 

And finally bmh, did Harry openly lobby to worsen your situation?  Did you ask him or any of the rest of the community for their support or help?  And what will you do if one of those places decides to start operating a disco at full volume and keeping you up all weekend?  Go crying to the same government you are disrespecting and encouraging lawbreaking against here? 

 

 

[pappysmarket]

It is interesting that the yellow "Clauserado" tape has not been slapped on. That is usually one of the first tricks and then the aggrieved party has to take the next step.

Maybe later?

[Mainecoons]

Candidly, it wouldn't surprise me if there are some in city hall who would like to slip this thing through.  How did the staff know to disappear before the inspectors arrived?  Who tipped them off?

Good point about the tape.  Community team, can you answer this one?

[HarryB]

If you remember the casino just west of Plaza Bougainvilleas had its' doors welded shut to enforce the final closure order!

 

[bmh]

No I did not ask anything from Larry and we quickly got what we wanted without anyone´s help. except for the lawyer we all hired of course..

I can see Maincoon that you understand how things work.. so be my guest and fight your battles, I live closer to the place than you do and it soes not bother me so frankly I really do not care what you guys do.

We had music come and go, One so called French restaurant as playing music very loud but they are gone, A salon was blasting music close by and they are gone, La Huerta used to have loud music but no more things come and go except for La Bodega that will be there forever.despite whatever zoning rules there are..

WHen I bought in 2001 I was told there were no zoning rules in the village so now you tell me there are.. again things come and go , are enforced and are not..good luck on changing anything.

The trick is to outlast the business or have a hearing aid  or both.

 

[bmh]

More info for you Maincoon, we were told by several lawyers there was nothing we could do about the brick factory that came up next to Billie moon property , the noise was awful and so was the dust. The reason we could not do anything is that there were no zoning rules that could be used to kick them out.

The only thing we could do was prove that the noise was past the limit allowable . .  Something was done but not through the community complaining  because people who were not bothered did not want to be involve....nothing new and frankly it takes more than the community complaining to move anything around here

[pappysmarket]

We also bought in 2001 and were told there were no zoning regulations. So we bought a big, old house, renovated it completely and opened a BnB without any kind of permit. As bmh says things come and go.

[Mainecoons]

Well bmh if you just lay back and take it, you will get it.

Fortunately for this community your point of view is decreasing.  And the leadership in many cases is coming from the Mexican community.

 

 

[HarryB]

Zoning regs were written , but, Ive been told , never passed by the town council. This admin is trying to enforce regs, laws etc. The Presidente has ordered that fines be established for enfractions. I don't know the status of the town council doing anything. They meet once a month and dont seem to do much. Maybe we could ask Dale Palfrey to do a report on the town council meetings?

 

[bmh]

so here is the answer Maincoon straight from Harry B

"Zoning regs were written , but, Ive been told , never passed by the town council.  "

I am not the type to "layback and take it!" but I do not fight  windmills either.

[Xena]

31 minutes ago, bmh said:

so here is the answer Maincoon straight from Harry B

"Zoning regs were written , but, Ive been told , never passed by the town council.  "

I am not the type to "layback and take it!" but I do not fight  windmills either.

Anyone who would even intimate that BMH is the "lay back and take it" type has obviously never met her -- nor read her posts.  

[Mainecoons]

Thank you bmh.  Now explain why you continue to support a business that is operating without legal permits.  And why you aren't supporting our Presidente's trying to put a stop to this sort of thing?  Do you really want to continue to see businesses like this shove their way into obviously residential areas?

It isn't as if the thing was granted licenses and the community is trying to overturn that.  That might justify the tilting at windmills appellation.

Why would anyone in Ajijic except someone either profiting from or wanting to profit from invading a neighborhood support this?  Is there a shortage of B&Bs, restaurants or beauty salons I'm not aware of that makes it vital to shove this one into such a bad location?

 

 

[bmh]

Maincoon you do not seem to get it, no zoning reg in the villages, businesses are not shoved in, they have the right to open..it is part of the inconveniences of living in the village.There  are lots og B&B i and other businesses in town including right next to your house and a loud business accross your house as well, you should know that there is nothing you can do about it, That is life in the village. If you want protection by in a condominium or a fraccionamento that enforces their rules..

Wether these people have a legal permit or not is another issue that is up to the government  not to a foreigner  on a cruisade.

The neighborhoods in villages are mixed because many of the people run theri businesses from their home. I heard they had an ordinance  in Ajijic that you could not raise pigs in the village but I do not even know tif that is correct or no.

IThe president does not need my support to get an ordinance passed, he has plenty of friends of supporters who can do that. I vote in San Cristobal but not here and PRI is not a party I support no matter what.

 

[NanaG]

Mainecoons, if you really want to see change, why don't you run for council, or whatever the equivalent is down here?  As others have said on here, businesses are mixed in right beside residences all over the village.  That's the way it's always been.

[pappysmarket]

We operated for over 6 years in the middle of Ajijic without a single permit of any kind. We sold in 2008 so anything could have changed since then.  We had a BnB, the ladies sold flowers and various items from Tlaquepaque from our garage, we did lunch to the public for a year or so including beer and wine and our attorney said we were completely legal.

We did have an accountant and paid taxes monthly. The only time we were ever visited was by the bomberos, at our request. They made me buy an extinguisher for the kitchen that even I had trouble lifting, never mind the poor cook. It remained where they dictated but I bought a smaller one that could actually be used. Fortunately, none were ever needed.

[Robert Vallem]

Hello --  I live next door to the new Hacienda del Lago.  I along with 32 other neighbors (half Mexicans) signed a complaint petition and submitted it 3 months before they opened (about the time they put up the HDL Cooming Soon sign).  The mayor said he supported us at a meeting we requested and he would not let then open.  When they applied for licenses, they we denied and we were given copies of a legal document drafted by the City of Chapala, spelling out that ZONING had been violated.  They had 5 days to respond to the government and did nothing.  This street is a historic area a half block from the lake and is zoned for residential, green areas and a low density tourist hotel (quiet B&B type).  Medium density hotels with a restaurant/bar/spa are not allowed here.  When they did open and started running ads for holiday dinners with live music our lawyer submitted a second request to shut then down.  Under pressure the mayor drafted a closure letter and someone sent 4 inspectors to do something?  The hotel was tipped off because they removed all signs of being open and employees along with the hair salon who has been operating there illegally for 5-6 months.  But not this day.  So we have been sending photos and emails and making phone calls for 3 weeks but the mayor has done nothing, in fact his Director of Regulations who is supposed to close them has told us he doesn't read anything we have been sending him.  The only one who can give the order is the mayor.  The entire city hall is on vacation until January.  Members of our group who have fought hard the whole time are selling there houses and moving away, exhausted from a fight that is winning legally but not getting the results we need.  I to am looking into selling and a respected real estate broker has said, to my surprise, that this will not effect the selling price.  Just ask the person living behind La Bodega who had dropped the price of his house from 180k to now 135K this week?  I hope the same thing happens to those who support this business.  I am leaving because my wife is sick and can't seem to get well, wonder why?  Two night with live music till at least midnight planned for New Years!  We are going to stay in a local B&B for our sanity start looking for somewhere else to live after that.  Zoning regulations can be obtained from the planning department like anywhere else, by going to citry hall and requesting them, you pay a fee $100 pesos or so and come back the next day to pick them up.  I have only seen the ones pertaining to my house because that is all we requested.  A map and the description of zone H3, my block but lakefront is H2 and a bit more restricted.  The site of the old HDL along Ocampo is zoned for business and residential (mixed).  The problem is as always here, no enforcement of the laws.

[Mainecoons]

On 12/17/2016 at 11:36 AM, NanaG said:

Mainecoons, if you really want to see change, why don't you run for council, or whatever the equivalent is down here?  As others have said on here, businesses are mixed in right beside residences all over the village.  That's the way it's always been.

Not a citizen yet Nana, can't run for political office.  I'm sure you know this already.

I just pay taxes.  A fair amount of them.  Without representation.

 

[Mainecoons]

On 12/17/2016 at 11:50 AM, pappysmarket said:

We operated for over 6 years in the middle of Ajijic without a single permit of any kind. We sold in 2008 so anything could have changed since then.  We had a BnB, the ladies sold flowers and various items from Tlaquepaque from our garage, we did lunch to the public for a year or so including beer and wine and our attorney said we were completely legal.

We did have an accountant and paid taxes monthly. The only time we were ever visited was by the bomberos, at our request. They made me buy an extinguisher for the kitchen that even I had trouble lifting, never mind the poor cook. It remained where they dictated but I bought a smaller one that could actually be used. Fortunately, none were ever needed.

That's great, what does that have to do with a business that has been denied licenses?  Is operating without licenses now legal here?  The middle of Ajijic has a lot of businesses and much better access.

Apples and oranges.  

A lot has changed since 2008.  The country now has noise regulations.  The municipal government has been tightening up on licensing.  There's a lot more pressure on residential neighborhoods from development now.  Bigger properties are being chopped up.  Density is rising along with heights.  There's a lot more amplified music.  There's a lot more traffic.

I suggest all the advocates of this business, none of whom are affected by it, read Robert's post carefully and realize it can happen to you.  

And frankly, some of you really deserve it.

 

[HarryB]

Please make sure that all docs submitted to municipal officials are stamped and copied as submitted with a copy to the presidente similarly stamped and copied. i am sure that your attorney has informed you that you can sue the officials who do not act on submitted docs? People have sued Chapala and won!

 

[Robert Vallem]

Hello again --  Yes, there is a 45 day waiting period while the mayor has time to enforce the law.  If he does not then we (our lawyer) can go to a federal judge and get a court order to pressure him to do something, at what cost to him I am not sure?  He may be waiting for that, then he can say he was forced to close them.  It will be expensive.  The mayor thinks this is going to be happening a lot in the future, he says you have to live with it, that is progress.  He said in a recent article he will be changing the zoning to allow things like the 6 (actually 8) story construction in La Floresta during the next year.  I believe he wants to be mayor another term and see these kind of changes take place, his vision does not include a 'pueblo magico' but a little guadalajara.  Enjoy your week leading up to the new year.

[zerbit]

1 hour ago, Mainecoons said:

Not a citizen yet Nana, can't run for political office.  I'm sure you know this already.

I just pay taxes.  A fair amount of them.  Without representation.

 

Taxation without representation! Amass a groups of expats. Dress as Huichols and under the cover of night, raid the Coca Cola depot and deposit as much of the product as you can into the lake.....The Ajijic Refresco Party.

[Mainecoons]

1 hour ago, Robert Vallem said:

Hello again --  Yes, there is a 45 day waiting period while the mayor has time to enforce the law.  If he does not then we (our lawyer) can go to a federal judge and get a court order to pressure him to do something, at what cost to him I am not sure?  He may be waiting for that, then he can say he was forced to close them.  It will be expensive.  The mayor thinks this is going to be happening a lot in the future, he says you have to live with it, that is progress.  He said in a recent article he will be changing the zoning to allow things like the 6 (actually 8) story construction in La Floresta during the next year.  I believe he wants to be mayor another term and see these kind of changes take place, his vision does not include a 'pueblo magico' but a little guadalajara.  Enjoy your week leading up to the new year.

Don't give up Robert!  That's how they win, they wear you down and wait you out.  In both matters, this and La Floresta, you have a very substantial participation by the Mexican community.  They are getting sick of this sort of thing too.

Some of the deniers here who haven't a clue what it would be like to live with one of these places like to also pretend this is just a bunch of expat complainers but that is not only an insult, it is a bald faced lie.  The La Floresta fight, for example, is being LED by several of the most prominent Mexicans in this community

[Metuchenmama]

Shortly after the presidente took office I was approached by a Mexican with ties to the new administration who wanted to know if I would help organize protests when high rise buildings were beginning to be approved as it would totally change the already congested life of the local communities.  The quality of life has already changed and the roads, water availability, electric supply and internet  are already over taxed.

I got the feeling from the conversation that the presidente has plans for a second term and that the planning for the changes in zoning and business contacts would be set up in a first term and then be executed in a second.

[pappysmarket]

4 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

That's great, what does that have to do with a business that has been denied licenses?  Is operating without licenses now legal here?  The middle of Ajijic has a lot of businesses and much better access.

Apples and oranges.  

A lot has changed since 2008.  The country now has noise regulations.  The municipal government has been tightening up on licensing.  There's a lot more pressure on residential neighborhoods from development now.  Bigger properties are being chopped up.  Density is rising along with heights.  There's a lot more amplified music.  There's a lot more traffic.

I suggest all the advocates of this business, none of whom are affected by it, read Robert's post carefully and realize it can happen to you.  

And frankly, some of you really deserve it.

 

MC, all was fine in your post until the last line.

You should be ashamed.

Pappy

[Mainecoons]

Not at all.  The people who are willing to hurt their own neighbors don't get much sympathy from me.  Ironically, if it was happening to them, as personally nasty as some have been to me for daring to disagree with them, I'd still be out there supporting them in the interests of the community.

Because our community will only be what we make of it.  At best, government here is no help and too often they are one of the adversaries.  This is a rare case indeed where at least the permits department did the right thing and we should be behind that fully.

Sorry if you are offended by the idea that those who advocate something like this deserve their own personal experience of it.  

But if the shoe fits, feel free to wear it.