Hacienda del Lago?

[NanaG]

5 hours ago, RORRO said:

Mainecoons is completely right ! Stand with the neighborhood. DO NOT SUPPORT THIS ILLEGAL BUSINESS. You could be next if this sort of thing is allowed to happen.

Okay RORRO, you don't have to shout!  I think that everyone has the right to make up their own mind.

[barrbower]

Unfortunately, this project along with the twin towers in La Floresta will probably proceed as soon as the appropriate person has received a sufficient bribe. This will take place when public indignation among the expat community has died down and is then overcome by the public at large deciding they need the jobs and money these projects will provide. The state of Jalisco or even better, the federal government in the case of the twin towers, will have to step in to really shut these things down...and we know how likely that is. These two projects reflect my personal opinion that it is probably not wise to buy a house in Mexico...just rent and then move when s--t hits the fan. Sorry for those adversely affected and maybe if enough folks continue to deliver their message along with a reminder that the expat community pumps over 100,000,000 dollars annually into this economy and therefore  we should have a say in how it develops.  Alan

[ComputerGuy]

I can hardly wait to move to Iran with all my expat buddies. We are going to sink a ton of money into the economy, and then start demanding a say. But not until we ensure that our women can wear short skirts and show their uncovered arms while they drive our cars and get the good jobs.

[Mainecoons]

Two things about these cases pique my curiosity:

With regards to the "twin towers" I'm amazed that this one ever got this far with the kind of heavy hitting, influential and moneyed Mexican opposition to it that has surfaced.  I know some of these people and I sure wouldn't want them against me.

As for its approval to begin with, it was unfortunately very typical of what we usually expect from the Chapala government.  I suspect there's some serious money involved here and some of it was likely spread to the right places.  

Note this was not approved by the current administration but by a previous one.

With regards to the Hotel del Lago, frankly I was shocked noting the foregoing approval that it was rejected in a blunt manner by the Chapala government.  That just doesn't happen around here very often.  

It says to me this idea is so bad that even they couldn't stomach it.

There may be a market for expensive high rise condos on the lake front since there are none currently but there really is no shortage of either restaurants or hotel rooms in good to great locations.  Or beauty salons.   

The one local high rise condo project we have sure didn't prove to be a barn burner of an investment, that is for sure.  On the other hand, it didn't have the best location either.

The jobs argument for the Hotel del Lago is bogus.  Adding to the current surplus of expensive hotel rooms and restaurants doesn't create more business, it just spreads it around.  Not that I really think this one is going to cost any existing hotel or restaurant any business.  

I do get the same feeling about this "Raddison Hotel" proposal as well.  At least the damage has already been done at that site.

[gringal]

57 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

I can hardly wait to move to Iran with all my expat buddies. We are going to sink a ton of money into the economy, and then start demanding a say. But not until we ensure that our women wear short skirts and show their arms while they drive our cars and get the good jobs.

That was hilarious!  It is also a good point.  The money we foreigners spend here goes to goods and services; not to the those in authority who issue or deny permits. What, then, gives us the idea that we should have a "say" in projects?  I say, somewhat cynically, that money "says" a lot in the right places.

 

[JayBearII]

Well, if you live in a fracc,such as La Floresta, there IS a precedent for abiding by its laws. This will be addressed in court, or so I hope.

If the Ajijic area goes high-rise, it will destroy the ambience that tourists enjoy. And this IS a tourist area, and not just for gringos.

Remember when Ajijic, quaint tourist town, was going for Pueblo Magico status? Hope springs eternal on that one, and it ain't gonna happen if Ajijic becomes a forest of high rises.

[HarryB]

People go along with anything as long as it isn't in my back yard. Unless we start working together, becoming citizens who vote, and exercise our economic power for the good of all anything can happen! This project isn't in my back yard. But, ten rooms and a restaurant in this location is wrong. No way should it be allowed. Sorry for the owners who put their money into this. But, they should have known the location wouldn't accommodate more then residential traffic, both vehicular and human.  

[ComputerGuy]

I actually fail to see how the traffic is going to be affected. That end is practically dead as it is.

[bmh]

10 rooms and a high end restaurant is not going to make a whole lot of difference to the traffic. There is no traffic on that street..I know I take it everyday I go home. The traffic is probably more affected by the scaffolds on the street and the people working on the next door property that it will be by the hotel.There are other hotels in the area, Danza del Sol and Villa Ajijic there are other restaurants like Armando abd life goes on..

[NanaG]

20 minutes ago, bmh said:

10 rooms and a high end restaurant is not going to make a whole lot of difference to the traffic. There is no traffic on that street..I know I take it everyday I go home. The traffic is probably more affected by the scaffolds on the street and the people working on the next door property that it will be by the hotel.There are other hotels in the area, Danza del Sol and Villa Ajijic there are other restaurants like Armando abd life goes on..

I agree with bmh on this one.  If 10 rooms and a high-end restaurant are so objectionable to people in that neighbourhood, why didn't they also want to shut down the Hotel Danza del Sol and Ajijic Villas?  That street will not be affected adversely by Hacienda del Lago and their customers.

[bmh]

We all know how long high end businesses last in this town anyway ..They are not supported so they all end up closing and then watch out for the next venture , it may not be as quiet as a high end restaurant and small hotel..

 

[pappysmarket]

3 hours ago, JayBearII said:

Well, if you live in a fracc,such as La Floresta, there IS a precedent for abiding by its laws. This will be addressed in court, or so I hope.

If the Ajijic area goes high-rise, it will destroy the ambience that tourists enjoy. And this IS a tourist area, and not just for gringos.

Remember when Ajijic, quaint tourist town, was going for Pueblo Magico status? Hope springs eternal on that one, and it ain't gonna happen if Ajijic becomes a forest of high rises.

 Have to disagree. When we lived in Ajijic and ran a B&B at least 90% of our guests were gringos who wanted to see if they would like to retire there. The rest were tourists. Mexican tourists came to the Lake on weekends and holidays. We now live in Puerto Vallarta and this is a tourist destination. We have Nationals and folks from all over the world. Lake Chapala is not much of a tourist destination (yet).

[artsnob]

All I want to know is when is the restaurant going to open, we miss it and cant wait for their eclectic food and ambiance..Perfect place for parties

[Mainecoons]

So you'd not only take your dog there and every other restaurant in violation of the law but also patronize a place that is operating without licenses because even the rather "tolerant" Chapala government had the sense to deny same?

How very public spirited of you, the very essence of good citizenship.

BTW, neither Ajijic Suites nor Danza del Sol have anything like the access problems this place does.  Some of you are forgetting about delivery trucks.

Harry is right.  To paraphrase Franklin, this community has been hanging separately precisely because it doesn't hang together to stop the really bad stuff like these two examples.

[Mainecoons]

UPDATE

I have received two updates from the neighbors fighting the opening and apparent illegal operation of the Hacienda del Lago at the east end of Independencia.  

1.  It is confirmed that the business has been denied all the licenses required to operate any of the businesses:  Hotel, restaurant or salon.

2.  It is confirmed they have neither filed an appeal of the denial or sought an Amparo to block it.

3.  It is confirmed by eyewitnesses who are documenting same that the business is actually operating illegally as people are entering it carrying luggage and meals are being served.  The unlicensed business has placed ads in the Ojo for Christmas and New Year's dinners, the Spa and Salon.

4.  It is confirmed the Chapala government has officially notified this business to shut down and it appears they are deliberately ignoring that notice.

Quoted below are the reports I received.  Note that the "we" refers to members of the community group fighting this illegal intrusion into their residential neighborhood and does not include me although I definitely support the affect community is this matter as I believe we all should.

 

Quote

 

Two days ago 4 inspectors arrived.  The next day the city attorney Del Toro called one of our representatives and said the City had closed the entire business on direction of the Presidente.  We are meeting with the Department of Regulations to obtain a copy of the closure notice.

The Hacienda del Lago is still operating and we get the impression the owner has not notified staff of what is going on.  We are following up with continued notice to the city of their operations. The City has made their decision and we are presisting in demanding the City enforce it.   Our information from the City Attorney is that Hacienda del Lago not eligible to go for an amparo because they did not file an appeal and any legal request beyond the municipality would be sent back for failure to go through the local process.   

While we do not think this is the end of the story people should be aware that this business is operating illegally and the City has informed them of the demand for closure.  This includes the hotel, the restaurant (that has a 1/2 page ad in the Ojo for Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve dinners), the spa and The Blue Moon Salon.

We have found that among many Mexicans there really is a desire to enforce law and order.  We are so astonished and reassured that so far we seem to be prevailing.  

 

A second report was then sent to me:

 

Quote

We submitted a formal demand to the City to close the business, citing evidence of people coming with luggage and meals being served.  We have a copy of a signed statement from the HDL owner that she knew that they had been denied licenses and agreeing to not operate until she got licenses.

 

Four inspectors showed up two days ago.  Our impression was that the owner of HDL had been forewarned because most of the staff and (a person with Blue Moon Salon) had left before they came.  The inspectors spent about 30 minutes at HDL.  

 

The next day we submitted a second demand for closure and attached a copy of the ad that is in the December Ojo del Lago announcing dinners on Christmas and New Year’s Eve and spa packages.  We asked that new inspections be made during those dinners since we were afraid the first inspection team had not found an “operating” business. 

 

The next day, (a call was received) from the City Attorney, Del Toro, that on order of the Presidente, HDL had been closed!  We are all astonished and relieved that our efforts seem to be paying off?

 

But since then HDL has continued to operate.  We have some confusing information that one group was welcomed in and another potential guest was turned away with the statement that they didn’t have permits and could not operate.

 

We are persisting in submitting evidence that they are operating to the Department of Regulations, the City Attorney and the Presidente.  The City does close down for a couple of weeks starting tomorrow, but we believe the Department of Regulations enforcement team continues to operate if needed.  (Pictures are being taken and evidence accumulated on a continuing basis by neighbors.)

 

If the City fails to enforce the law, we do have the option of an Amparo and forcing them to do it from higher authority.  However, we believe there is a great deal of momentum now at the local level.  We have found some real support at the City demonstrating that respect for the law has a high chance of prevailing in this situation.  

 

There you have it.  As it stands now if you patronize this business you are putting yourself completely at odds with both the Chapala government and your own neighbors in the Lakeside community.  And you may very well be photographed doing it or even be raided by the Chapala government during your holiday dinner.

There are plenty of legally operating businesses that respect the community and the rule of law for you to patronize here.  Why support lawbreakers?

[El Saltos]

There is no rational reason to deny HDL a license.

[bmh]

They are either allowed to be closed or open. They are open therefore they are allowed to operate...end of subject.

If they were illegal the city would slap some kind of oficial note that there were closed.. ANything else is nasty gossip

 

 

[Catrina Doll]

Had dinner there one week after opening. Beautiful place. Old Hacienda renovated and added second floor. New owners bought name and all rights to the name - website, menu, etc. Tables by pool - very uncomfortable chairs.....for parties of 8-10 or more, large tables inside for dining. No lights outside except for candles on table. Difficult to read menu under such lighting. Was not impressed with menu - though some may like it. I had a chicken soup for lack of anything else that piqued my appetite - the chicken had grizzle.....yuk! We were party of four and only people there --- except for some guests who arrived to go to their rooms. Though a lovely setting, did not find the food to be desirable (my opinion) and will not rush to go back. No problem parking on street - bc we were only ones there. If they do have a crowd, parking will be difficult.

[Xena]

18 minutes ago, bmh said:

They are either allowed to be closed or open. They are open therefore they are allowed to operate...end of subject.

If they were illegal the city would slap some kind of oficial note that there were closed.. ANything else is nasty gossip

 

 

Agree, BMH. It may be a case of Tell Them What They Want to Hear until it all goes away. If the  government really wanted them to not be operating they would be stopped. 

[HarryB]

neighbors should submit copies of time stamped video to the Presidente and Hugo Herrera licencing official. request a receipt as proof of submission. When we don't support each other in times of need, anything can and will happen. I am thinking of opening a chain of autobody shops with shops next door to bmh and artsnob.

[Mainecoons]

58 minutes ago, bmh said:

They are either allowed to be closed or open. They are open therefore they are allowed to operate...end of subject.

If they were illegal the city would slap some kind of oficial note that there were closed.. ANything else is nasty gossip

 

 

Incorrect.  You've been around here long enough to know better.  An 11 page report was filed with the denial and the owners have already admitted in writing they are not licensed to operate.

[Mainecoons]

1 hour ago, El Saltos said:

There is no rational reason to deny HDL a license.

I take it then you've read the 11 page denial report issued by Chapala?

No?  Then on what basis do you make this statement?

[El Saltos]

One could say most of that is true of every BnB and restaurant in Ajijic.

[Mainecoons]

10 minutes ago, El Saltos said:

One could say most of that is true of every BnB and restaurant in Ajijic.

So you have read the specifics of this rejection report and can also make this statement?

Would you kindly excerpt the irrational parts the rejection report and explain their irrationality to the rest of us?

Thanks.

[bmh]

Harry where were you when the block fabric started at the back of our neighbor accross the street?

I do not remember supporting us in anyways and the factory went..We have one large hotel on one end and one condo hotel on the other end.. once in a while we hear music... big deal..

I really do not see the big deal about a 10 room b& B opening in the village.. there are plenty of B&B in the village and they do not seem to bother anyone. There is no such thing as a residential zoning like we have in the States and these people are not noisy or dirty so what is the big deal.