Natasha Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Asking for a friend (my car was purchased/plated in Jalisco). If a person with permanente card does not nationalize their vehicle, and they get caught driving with U.S. plates, does the vehicle get confiscated? Can they get it back? Is there a penalty involved? Does the 8 - 9 year-old rule you quoted in your recent topic this forum apply to her (older -- 1998 or 1999) vehicle because she did not nationalize immediately after getting permanente status? Many thanks for your help on this tricky issue, since the car is proably not worth the cost to legalize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Berca Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Driving a vehicle that is not in Mexico legally, as your friend's has been since the moment she picked up her permanente, is reason for immediate confiscation never to be returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowyco Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 In addition to the risk of having the vehicle permanently confiscated:Many Mexican auto insurance companies have fine print clauses in their policies that deny coverage for any damages, liabilities, or losses that happen to a vehicle that is not fully legal. Some insurance agents, who are little more than sales reps, tell their customers that it's somehow OK to drive a Temporarily Imported Permitted vehicle, even when the permit is expired or invalid, while the insurance adjustors quickly disavow any insurance protection in an accident, when they find out that the vehicle is not fully legal.Without insurance protection in an accident, or even a road-side traffic infraction stop, the police have the right to immediately impound the vehicle, and put the driver in jail indefinitely until the police are satisfied that the driver has the ability to pay for any damages, liabilities, or losses - which includes the multi-million peso fines if someone is accidentally killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLU Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 There is no probably about it. The cost, the inconvenience, the unreliability of many so-called brokers, etc. Don't do it. I did. I regret it greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVGRINGO Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 We had a J-car, which could not be nationalized. As soon as we became Residente Permanente we parked it in our garage and did not drive it again until we got a Retorno Seguro to make it legal for the five day trip north, at which time we got a fresh insurance policy for the trip. If your friend is smart, she will not drive that car in Mexico until she gets a Retorno Seguro and insurance to remove it from Mexico. The risk is much too great and the jail is not a nice place for her to stay long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercasa Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Depends who stops them. Best case is they slip money and get to go away, worst case could be car impounded and then later a referral to SAT and fines to be paid. A real worst case scenario is they are in a bad accident and arrested and insurance does not cover and they sit in jail for years thinking about their love for their car and all the money they saved by not nationalizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLU Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Again, don't nationalize. Legally, get that car out of Mexico and replace it with a Mexican one. Nationalizing it isn't as bad as the scenario Spencer spell's out, but it is still a nightmare you do not wish to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZee Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 We just turned Residente Permanente at the end of Nov, 2014. We had started the process of nationalizing our vehicle about 3 weeks before our RP date. Unfortunately we run smack into all the Audana issues including the corruption at the top and officials being arrested etc etc and the whole system coming to a screeching halt. We had chanced going with a local Manz. broker who has a very high reputation by the NOB community here in Manzanillo . He continued to be optimistic of the paperwork coming through . It is now January, rules keep changing, and optimism is waning. To your question: we spoke to immigration about the legalities of continuing to drive our car. They said " basically as you had started the process and the delay was not caused by us then so long as we had written proof we had applied , we should be fine. " Interesting but doubtful. We then sat down with the broker. He said that he has offices in Manzanillo , Colima city and in PV. All his clients who are in this same situation ( and there are lots of them) , continue to drive and he has not heard of one issue. So we got a letter from the broker and put it in the car. Continued to drive around Manzanillo and a few trips to the airport. THEN I read a few posts and the issue of insurance came up. frankly two points came out of that. A) I have been foolish to drive this vehicle at all. Even though the chances of an accident are small , IF it happened , OMG the potential consequences could be life changing. It is the same as driving without proper insurance back home and I would never do that. So why was I doing it here? It is now parked and covered. Going forward Options: Continue to try and nationized it. Wait out the backlog, hope the new and changing laws will not affect our ability to nationized ( 11 year old car, Canadian owned) . If happens after we return to Canada then Get a power of attorney to someone local to be able to drive the car 10 minutes to get registration and plates. We are told our total cost will be $2000.00 approx. As mentioned by RVGringo and others, the best option would be to take it back home, sell it and buy here. Now I have a 2003 Trail Blazer with 168,000 kms ( approx. 100,000 miles) on it. I have kept it is very, very good condition so it is Valuable to me here. The True market value up north in Canada is only 4-5,000 dollars at best. It will cost me a couple of grand to drive it back to Canada, trip, get canadian insurance, get inspection etc . Inspection could bring to light repairs required to pass the Alberta inspection, who knows. Then sell it and IF get anywhere near market will be a very small net result. I then thought about driving it to Texas, leaving it at friends there and selling it cheap. Everything I could find to read about this , tells me a huge and cumbersome process, inspections, repairs maybe etc. So does not sound like something we could do and not be there. ( if someone has done this successfully , please enlighten me) . such fun Btw: I had forgotten the ease of the city buses. Actually very convenient And My chiropractor here is happy with the business. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natasha Posted January 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Thanks to ALL for your input. My friend had started the process with someone who she trusted, but I had major doubts (about them). Then several personal disasters intervened..... and then more major doubts surfaced about the facilitator as time went on and nothing happened. Biggest problem is car is worth less than $2,000 but she is hard pressed to buy something to replace it. However, with the info you've all posted, I think she'll park it and see the best way to go from here. Major conundrum -- paying someone to take it out of the country (she can't go herself) could cost more than it will bring............hmmmmmm Sure glad it's not me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonia Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Natasha almost nothing has been legally nationalized since September. A very few have a great reputation for nationalizing and are honest and process totally legally although slow. For example, many know of the issues at the GDL airport and often I get emails of people in various parts of Mexico scammed with plates included in the nationalizing and some paying 40,000 plus pesos. As noted by CeeZee it is the corruption by brokers along with lawyers, politicians, Aduana employees that created this mess. Very few of the vehicles being nationalized are for expats, most are commercial operators. I stopped taking new applications weeks ago but I am assured we can start again later this month and all those outstanding will be completed. Note, the process at the border will be very different including possibly only 8 and 9 year old vehicles. That process will not be the same for those cars being nationalized which are already in Mexico and will depend on which Amparo is being used. We know of cars parked at and near the border for weeks waiting to nationalize. Unfortunately, they may be unable to be completed if too old etc. It appears the NAFTA regulations have been thrown out the window as Mexico by law is suppose to nationalize cars as per NAFTA. Non-NAFTA vehicles at least in near future can not be nationalized based on my information which comes from a person who communicates with Aduana and brokers several times a week and worked for Aduana for many years in a senior position. He has proven over 18 months to be very informed and honest. When 2 non-NAFTA cars could not be completed dating back months they received a full refund two weeks ago. There may be two more non-NAFTA we can not complete from same period but they too will have a full refund. All NAFTA outstanding i have been promised will be completed. Nationalizing has certainly not been easy. saludos Sonia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLIN Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 I think a lot of things have changed in Mexico over the past few years. The general quality of vehicle production and reliability have vastly improved - good, solid running automobiles, are now available in Mexico in the $2,000 US range. Reliable trucks and vans are more of a problem. These are Mexican plated vehicles and you have to know how to check them out. If you drive a vehicle around Chapala, Ajijic and Jocotepec it is extremely unlikely you will be stopped for the reason of foreign plates. Hundreds of locals and expats do this everyday, and I have talked to many of them about it. If you go into Guadalajara, especially past the airport, the chance of an encounter with Federales is much greater. They may threaten to take your car. Palming some cash is possible - but make very sure you get someone to teach you how to accomplish this. Respect and humility is the order of the day. Remember the police (everywhere) are trained to believe that everybody is guilty of something. If they take your car - suck it up, it's nothing personal, you can always find another. There is always the chance you can buy it back in auction, and they have to legalize it to sell it. There is an old saying among wealthy people 'never fall in love with a piece of real estate' - I would add - never fall in love with a car. Having liability insurance is the law - a law that less than 1 out of 4 follow. Many do not have a license, insurance or smog inspection. After much research, I have learned that car insurance companies are virtually useless on any form of payout, whether you have insurance or not. The adjuster and insurance lawyer is a good option to pay for - but at this stage of the game you should have a well connected lawyer(s) on call, and pay them well. The biggest warning I have about driving in Mexico is to carry the best private Mexican private health insurance you can afford. If you are in an accident, even if the other driver is at fault and has insurance, the coverage is minimal and will certainly not cover long term rehabilitation. Good insurance will cost a minimum of $2,000 U.S. per year, per person. This is a much better investment than dumping $$$ into a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xena Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 THANK YOU, Chillin, for a sane, logical, real-world look at this situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickS Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 "...good, solid running automobiles, are now available in Mexico in the $2,000 US range." Chillin, nice sane comments. Could you address, in a little more detail, the quote you made (above)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLIN Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 One of our Mexican doctors, lives and has a clinic in Guadalajara. He travels to Chapala once a week. He is a real car buff. He belongs to a car club which is constantly buying and selling used cars (individually). He has his own body shop and spray booth. He has a large and impressive collection of classic and collector cars - but he and other members of the group like spotting the bargains. For them that as is much fun as spotting the rarities. It was he who mentioned the $2,000 as a realistic figure. He wants to help me because he knows I can do custom fiberglass, vacuum forming, and plaster carving (like Big Daddy Roth). There are two "groups" that I know of in Chapala that are always buying and selling 'chocolates' or salvage vehicles - but their target is $200 to $1,000 (U.S.) - the cars have to have papers, even if they are not current. To show you how insane Guadalajara is, a few weeks ago, on a Sunday he was driving his special edition Hummer, with some real tricked out tires. The truck is white with tinted windows. A white with black tints Supra pulls up, and shoots a large caliber hole in his side panel. He thinks they were aiming for a tire. I actually saw the bullet hole. Interestingly, he did not report it to insurance (he just fixed and sprayed it himself) or to the police. The Hummer is for sale! A good mechanic is necessary. I have found one but he is too busy to pass on - I am too greedy. He built a custom clutch from scavenged parts, for a Toyota truck 4x4 gearbox/transaxle on a Isuzu turbo diesel engine. It is better than the original. He can go through a scrapyard and build anything for everything. What we call a "gearhead" in Canada edit: I forgot to mention one day he was driving a 2000 Dodge Stratus. It was very clean - but he might of sprayed it. He said it was worth $2,000. The V4 was supposed to be more reliable than the V6, and much less to buy used. 200,000 plus KM is not a death sentence anymore, but there are many used Mexican cars in the low 100 km range http://www.cars.com/dodge/stratus/2000/consumer-reviews/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakeside7 Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Sorry , but it sounds to me that CHILIN is in La La land....trying to compare what Mexican do and what Gringos can try, is just not comparable...talking about 2,000 usd cars and private health premiums is also weird....don't you know there are rule's for the Nationals and different rules for Gringos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLIN Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I am only responding to this because of the health care dig. The agent told us that in his experience, we were the first to sign up for this Mexican policy that were gringos, the other 30 to 40 of his local policy holders were Mexican (local), mostly families and professionals. It is the best (IMHO), but you have to be under 64 years old. Period. The point is that the policy has a generous under 64 , U.S.A./Canada coverage - much better than Cdn. or US Obamacare. You follow the bread crumbs, not I. GNP Rules are the same everywhere. Where there is a will, there is a way. For example - tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance is a national sport where ever humans congregate. Even the Bible talks of tax collectors. If you take out Permanent Residence in Mexico (a "Green Card" an "Immigrant") you have certain responsibilities (and taxes) to handle things in "the native way". There are no exclusions, or expectations of special favors, which might be available to temporary residents or glorified tourists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Berca Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Good stuff, Chillin. Food for thought if nothing else. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hensley Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Some of our friends are taking their cars to the chop shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arv42 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Some of our friends are taking their cars to the chop shop. Where? I might be interested. But I am going to stay there and watch them cut it up, or it's almost a gurantee that it will be on the street again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLIN Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 You miss the point of the chop shop route - your foreign plated, foreign VIN number cars goes in, but comes out as a Mexican plated and registered version, and pictures of your old car as completely scrapped. The real world is often not a pretty one in Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbviajero Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 You miss the point of the chop shop route - your foreign plated, foreign VIN number cars goes in, but comes out as a Mexican plated and registered version, and pictures of your old car as completely scrapped. The real world is often not a pretty one in Mexico.Chillin,I doubt that's the "chop shop route" that hensley is talking about,but I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHILLIN Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 On second thought - you are probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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