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returno seguro


chappy

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My temporal expires in September; I know that I have to apply for my permanente a month before it expires.  Our plan is to park the US plated car, not using it until we go north after I get the permanente.  I understand that you can get a returno seguro from SAT in order to drive the car to the border legally.  Is that the office in Guadalajara where we got our RFC?   Or is it the customs place by the GDL airport?  When do I get that pass?  Before I turn in the temporal?  Or do I get it after getting the permanente, just before we depart?  We plan to keep the car so another service to get the car out of Mexico is not an option.  Thanks for any help.

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2 hours ago, chappy said:

My temporal expires in September; I know that I have to apply for my permanente a month before it expires.  Our plan is to park the US plated car, not using it until we go north after I get the permanente.  I understand that you can get a returno seguro from SAT in order to drive the car to the border legally.  Is that the office in Guadalajara where we got our RFC?   Or is it the customs place by the GDL airport?  When do I get that pass?  Before I turn in the temporal?  Or do I get it after getting the permanente, just before we depart?  We plan to keep the car so another service to get the car out of Mexico is not an option.  Thanks for any help.

I would highly recommend using an attorney for this.

Apparently,  timing is critical because the pass is only good for a few days.

I'm not a fan, but I have read that Spencer can facilitate this.

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Doesn't the TIP automatically expire once a Temporal becomes a Permanente? Bad planning on the part of the OP for sure because I believe that it also means that he/she will lose their deposit. If I was about to becomes Permanente and had a foreign plated vehicle in the country, I would be getting it out of the country in advance of becoming Permanente... no matter how inconvenient it was. 

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This is in the information in the website quoted above:

'Safe Return’ Procedure: If your vehicle is currently “illegal” (or will become illegal when you switch from Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente), and you want to take the car out of the country, you can apply for a “Retorno Seguro” permit from SAT, which gives you five days to drive the car out of the country (to the USA or to Belize).

My concern is the timing as to when the pass/permit is issued, and where the SAT office is to get the pass.

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Your car is OK as long as you are Temporal. Once you get your Permanente it becomes illegal to drive.... but OK to be sitting in your driveway.

Timing for the Retorno Seguro is this:  when you actually have the document from SAT in hand you have 5-7 business days to drive the vehicle out of Mexico. Stop at the border to cancel the TIP (NO, it's not dead yet) and get your deposit back. 

I don't know exactly where SAT is in Guadalajara but not the airport. Spencer McMullen always did mine.  Can be procured in one stop. Best to know some Spanish if you are going to do it yourself. There is a 'small' fee for the document. More of course if you have a 'facilitator' do if for you.  IF you are questioned while driving back to the border....very small chance.... just show the authorities the document. You don't have to 'turn it in' anywhere once there... it's just insurance for you to get to the border 'safely' in case you are questioned. 

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22 hours ago, Ferret said:

Doesn't the TIP automatically expire once a Temporal becomes a Permanente?

Well it didn't use to.  I have driven Permanente's TIP vehicle out.... with a Retorno Seguro... weeks and in one case a couple of months after the owner became Permanente. I cancelled the TIPs at the border and the deposit was always returned to the Owner's credit card in a few business days. 

It is possible that their computer systems are more 'connected' these days and what you say/think may be true. It has been 2-3 years since I last did this (but prior to that I had done MANY of them over the years). 

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11 hours ago, RickS said:

Well it didn't use to.  I have driven Permanente's TIP vehicle out.... with a Retorno Seguro... weeks and in one case a couple of months after the owner became Permanente. I cancelled the TIPs at the border and the deposit was always returned to the Owner's credit card in a few business days. 

It is possible that their computer systems are more 'connected' these days and what you say/think may be true. It has been 2-3 years since I last did this (but prior to that I had done MANY of them over the years). 

I really don't think that immigration is sending information to customs. The TIP is legally invalid when you become permanente but customs is unaware.

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12 hours ago, RickS said:

 

 

12 hours ago, RickS said:

It is possible that their computer systems are more 'connected' these days and what you say/think may be true. It has been 2-3 years since I last did this (but prior to that I had done MANY of them over the years). 

Do you think when we pay our refrendo in Chapala each year that all other motor vehicle entities are notified?   Nope.

Do you think if you get a ticket for a vehicle infraction that the refrendo place is notified ?   Nope.  

Do you think when you become permanente that all government agencies in MX are notified?  Nope.

Not any different than in the U.S.  All separate agencies and not linked.  Not enough employees in the world to handle that type of information sharing - - - yet, perhaps with AI.

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You may be surprised as to how much sharing is going on... in the US.

For example if I get a speeding ticket my insurance company pretty quickly knows. If I purchase a vehicle.... and not even gone to register it yet... companies immediately start sending me snail mail saying that I only have a short time left to get an extended warranty on it.

I could go on....

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6 hours ago, Mostlylost said:

I really don't think that immigration is sending information to customs. The TIP is legally invalid when you become permanente but customs is unaware.

Could be... I have no way to know either way. But 'on the ground' the results is that deposits are returned to Permanentes. 

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22 minutes ago, RickS said:

Could be... I have no way to know either way. But 'on the ground' the results is that deposits are returned to Permanentes. 

You are dead right.  That is because Banjercito (the bank owned by the Mexican army that handles the money) has no way of knowing that the person who got the TIP has caused it to be invalid. They only see it is leaving Mexico legally when the vehicle is checked out.

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On 5/26/2023 at 5:20 PM, chappy said:

My temporal expires in September; I know that I have to apply for my permanente a month before it expires.  Our plan is to park the US plated car, not using it until we go north after I get the permanente.  I understand that you can get a returno seguro from SAT in order to drive the car to the border legally.  Is that the office in Guadalajara where we got our RFC?   Or is it the customs place by the GDL airport?  When do I get that pass?  Before I turn in the temporal?  Or do I get it after getting the permanente, just before we depart?  We plan to keep the car so another service to get the car out of Mexico is not an option.  Thanks for any help.

Not a problem, as the RS is for you to drive it out after you become Permanente.  Not sure where you get it, but you get it AFTER you become Permanente. 

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56 minutes ago, HookEmHorns said:

Not a problem, as the RS is for you to drive it out after you become Permanente.  Not sure where you get it, but you get it AFTER you become Permanente. 

Actually you get a returno seguro for a vehicle whose TIP has expired.   

Most cars are removed from Mexico before the Permanente is issued. Or people have friends, or pay someone like RickS to drive the car in question to the frontier and have the TIP exit processed. 

https://www.gob.mx/tramites/ficha/aviso-de-retorno-seguro-de-vehiculos-extranjeros/SAT5098

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56 minutes ago, Mostlylost said:

Actually you get a returno seguro for a vehicle whose TIP has expired.   

Most cars are removed from Mexico before the Permanente is issued. Or people have friends, or pay someone like RickS to drive the car in question to the frontier and have the TIP exit processed. 

https://www.gob.mx/tramites/ficha/aviso-de-retorno-seguro-de-vehiculos-extranjeros/SAT5098

"Safe Return" Procedure: If your vehicle is currently “illegal” (or will become illegal when you switch from Residente Temporal to Residente Permanente), and you want to take the car out of the country, you can apply for a “Retorno Seguro” permit from SAT, which gives you five days to drive the car out of the country (to the USA or to Belize).

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It's kind of semantics but..... there are two things that will cause a foreign plated car to become illegal while in Mexico:  The 180 day limit has been reached OR the owner acquires Permanente status. Both appear to be  immediate.  

My previous statement that 'It didn't use to' is probably wrong. I based that on the fact that the deposit was always being returned when I took the vehicle to the border and that would not have happened if they were illegal. Turns out it was probably the 'right hand not knowing what.....'.  You know what is said about 'assuming' something!

And BTW, I was not being 'paid' to do the border dance but was rather buying the vehicles outright from the owners and then selling them back home in Colorado. In the early days of the Permanente law a lot of Gringos were caught with foreign plated vehicles in Mexico, didn't want to/couldn't drive them out of the country and didn't have a 'relative' that could do that for them. 

 

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But Rick, it is not just a new thing with Permanente so "caught" is probably not the right terminology. There were choices to be made previously as well... you could have a foreign plated car with an FM3 or an FM2 but you could NOT have one when you became Inmigrado (now called Permanente). Unable to drive them out, I understand. Plan accordingly because the laws have been in place for a long time.

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On 5/28/2023 at 10:28 AM, ibarra said:

 

Do you think when we pay our refrendo in Chapala each year that all other motor vehicle entities are notified?   Nope.

Do you think if you get a ticket for a vehicle infraction that the refrendo place is notified ?   Nope.  

Do you think when you become permanente that all government agencies in MX are notified?  Nope.

Not any different than in the U.S.  All separate agencies and not linked.  Not enough employees in the world to handle that type of information sharing - - - yet, perhaps with AI.

Ibrarra I think before the days of the computer your non sharing observation was correct, but now every department has easy access to all your information 

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4 hours ago, lakeside7 said:

Ibrarra I think before the days of the computer your non sharing observation was correct, but now every department has easy access to all your information 

I don't believe that to be true from personal experience.

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22 hours ago, Ferret said:

But Rick, it is not just a new thing with Permanente so "caught" is probably not the right terminology. There were choices to be made previously as well... you could have a foreign plated car with an FM3 or an FM2 but you could NOT have one when you became Inmigrado (now called Permanente). Unable to drive them out, I understand. Plan accordingly because the laws have been in place for a long time.

Ferret my memory from back in those days is that most folks did NOT go Inmigrado... just stayed with an FM3 then FM2There was NO requirement that, after some number of years, one HAD to go Inmigrado. So most didn't.  None of my friends did.... didn't see the purpose or good reason. Thus most kept their foreign plated vehicles... why not? South Dakota plates were everywhere (SD allowed them to keep their plates up-to-date by mail). With the new law  that NO ONE knew was coming, they were 'caught' unaware. Most went Temporal... allowing them at least 4 years to remove their foreign plated vehicles... but some wanted to sooner than later go Permanente.  It was in those first 4 years that I took a lot of US plated vehicles out of Mexico.

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True enough. You could stay FM3 forever by just renewing every year... or go on to FM2 after 5 years but still have to renew every year... or go on to Inmigrado after 5 years of FM2 and never have to renew again ... or become a Citizen and not renew every year but gained the opportunity to vote. Never really understood why Mexico gave up all those renewal fees. And still do not understand why people cling to a NOB vehicle either. Sigh.

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